“Brain degradation after death” is the key point in this list that I’d be interested in learning about. I’m not sure if it’s proper to ask this in a comment now or should I be studying diligently around the issue, but I think it’s also an interesting subject so excuse me.
The cryonics process is often analoguously compared the the event of a harddrive being broken, and the data being retrievable, but brains and harddrives store information in very different ways and this problem always strikes me as very unnerving. Without going into too much detail, it’s very easy to see how something that is be mostly truthful for harddrives might turn out not to be true at all for brains.
Personally I would already be signed up for cryonics if I only had the money for that, and I think it’s very important to discuss the topic. This is very much related because when I’ve had those few discussions around cryonics it has usually stumbled on this particular detail. Can the information of the brain really be preserved via cryonics?Does the brain not deteriorate before the actual event of cryopreservation?
Considering how microinfarctions seem to be an irreversible problem even with live human beings for the time being, I’m very skeptical about frequency of the tissue surviving to the point where it’s finally frozen.
Just to point out the cited paragraph in the main post did not cover this area exactly, but instead focused on the process of the cryopreservation, and personally I completely disagree with the skepticism of that neuroscientist. If you’re interested in why: With his current knowledge the neuroscientist might be underestimating the capacity of future technologies and he is just concentrating on his view of not being able to solve the problem with present technology. As long as the information is stored well enough to be reconstructed in theory, I think it’s plausible to say it will be possible in practice later. And the neuroscientist did not seem to (from my extremely layman perspective) concentrate on the issue from the aspect of information theoretic loss, but rather from a practical aspect of extracting that warped information. I think the cryopreservation process is kind of a stable environment where changes to the brain can be traced back and the damage caused by the process potentially reversible.
Meanwhile I think occurring chemical reactions, damage from microbes, etc. prior to cryopreservation pose the threat of the information being completely lost, degradation of the brain prior to preservation being they key problem.Something missing as opposed to something being distorted.
That’s what I think anyway—which is not much in terms of reliability
Could anyone please be nice and elaborate on this?
“Brain degradation after death” is the key point in this list that I’d be interested in learning about. I’m not sure if it’s proper to ask this in a comment now or should I be studying diligently around the issue, but I think it’s also an interesting subject so excuse me.
The prices range from ~$400/year for life insurance and membership fees if you’re young and healthy to ~$100,000 if you’re about to die and need to pay for it in full.
Presumably the $400/year should be expected to increase over time as you grow older and less healthy, and you should expect to end up contributing enough on average (one way or another) to pay that ~$100k when you finally die?
Upvoted because the idea is correct, but $100k is the upper end of the scale: Alcor charges $80,000 for neuropreservation (though $200,000 for whole-body, but really, why would you want that?); with Cryonics Institute you can get by with $28,000 for the cryopreservation and $1,250 for a lifetime membership (plus $120 per year until you can afford the $1,250); and Kriorus only charges $10k for neuropreservation.
I don’t expect there to be a way to cheat statistics: if the life policies all have the same payout, they most likely all have the same expected cost when you take into account interest rates. The insurance company wants to make money (in expectation), after all.
“Brain degradation after death” is the key point in this list that I’d be interested in learning about. I’m not sure if it’s proper to ask this in a comment now or should I be studying diligently around the issue, but I think it’s also an interesting subject so excuse me.
The cryonics process is often analoguously compared the the event of a harddrive being broken, and the data being retrievable, but brains and harddrives store information in very different ways and this problem always strikes me as very unnerving. Without going into too much detail, it’s very easy to see how something that is be mostly truthful for harddrives might turn out not to be true at all for brains.
Personally I would already be signed up for cryonics if I only had the money for that, and I think it’s very important to discuss the topic. This is very much related because when I’ve had those few discussions around cryonics it has usually stumbled on this particular detail. Can the information of the brain really be preserved via cryonics? Does the brain not deteriorate before the actual event of cryopreservation?
Considering how microinfarctions seem to be an irreversible problem even with live human beings for the time being, I’m very skeptical about frequency of the tissue surviving to the point where it’s finally frozen.
Just to point out the cited paragraph in the main post did not cover this area exactly, but instead focused on the process of the cryopreservation, and personally I completely disagree with the skepticism of that neuroscientist. If you’re interested in why: With his current knowledge the neuroscientist might be underestimating the capacity of future technologies and he is just concentrating on his view of not being able to solve the problem with present technology. As long as the information is stored well enough to be reconstructed in theory, I think it’s plausible to say it will be possible in practice later. And the neuroscientist did not seem to (from my extremely layman perspective) concentrate on the issue from the aspect of information theoretic loss, but rather from a practical aspect of extracting that warped information. I think the cryopreservation process is kind of a stable environment where changes to the brain can be traced back and the damage caused by the process potentially reversible. Meanwhile I think occurring chemical reactions, damage from microbes, etc. prior to cryopreservation pose the threat of the information being completely lost, degradation of the brain prior to preservation being they key problem.Something missing as opposed to something being distorted. That’s what I think anyway—which is not much in terms of reliabilityCould anyone please be nice and elaborate on this?
Yes, good intuition. This is what Mike Darwin considers the largest problem in cryonics: http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/02/23/does-personal-identity-survive-cryopreservation/
I hear it’s common to overestimate the cost of cryonics. Have you actually checked on the prices? If not, it may be lower than you think.
Full disclosure: I am not signed up for cryonics.
The prices range from ~$400/year for life insurance and membership fees if you’re young and healthy to ~$100,000 if you’re about to die and need to pay for it in full.
Presumably the $400/year should be expected to increase over time as you grow older and less healthy, and you should expect to end up contributing enough on average (one way or another) to pay that ~$100k when you finally die?
Upvoted because the idea is correct, but $100k is the upper end of the scale: Alcor charges $80,000 for neuropreservation (though $200,000 for whole-body, but really, why would you want that?); with Cryonics Institute you can get by with $28,000 for the cryopreservation and $1,250 for a lifetime membership (plus $120 per year until you can afford the $1,250); and Kriorus only charges $10k for neuropreservation.
Fixed rate life policies are available, but they tend to cost a bit more.
I don’t expect there to be a way to cheat statistics: if the life policies all have the same payout, they most likely all have the same expected cost when you take into account interest rates. The insurance company wants to make money (in expectation), after all.