Now: here’s the thing about this game. It’s easy. It’s easy because neither of us is wedded in identity or ego to the outcome. It is merely an exercise in evaluated argument schema. I didn’t even take a position on the issue here, I simply responded to invalidity issues in your argument. This is nothing like politics as it really happens. The arguments aren’t soldiers. I’m not trying to win. We haven’t taken sides. So our minds will be fine. But it won’t prove anything.
we’ve already answered the question in court
We’ve also already answered the abortion question in court (I assume the context is the American legal system...) if that criteria is sufficient to establish one of your premises it should be sufficient to establish the issue in it’s entirety. Conversely, if the abortion question is up for debate, so too is the sheltering newborns from the elements questions.
of whether or not we can be forced to act in a child’s best interest against our will
The government can legally force me to pay income taxes against my will. That does not settle the question of whether or not the government can legally force me to do anything against my will. For instance, most people do not believe it is legal for the government to secretly lock me up and torture me without due process. Similarly, there being an obligation to shelter newborn infants does not settle the question of the extent of the sacrifices a government can require of parents for their children. Presumably there are some sacrifices you would find onerous.
I argue that all human lives have moral value,
Your terms are ambiguous and the substance of the issue lies in their definitions. In particular, you appear to beg the question about when in fact human life begins. Those who support a legal right to abortion often deny that human life begins at conception and have various reasons for this view.
In conclusion 1) the argument you use for one of your premises also argues for the inverse of your conclusion, 2) your subconclusion that women can be forced to be incubators if fetuses are humans does not follow from your premise and 3) you provide no argument for the claim that fetuses are human lives
[META] I’m not trying to win for a reason; it would be improper for me, a person who loves to argue about politics, to create a “test” in which I conveniently get to argue about politics with a community which has a prohibition against arguing about politics; I felt that there would be an implicit ethical violation there. I chose that argument specifically so I wouldn’t get sucked in. Yeah, the axiom I chose was kind of poor; it’s not a position I regularly argue from. Fortunately, even faulty arguments are good for this test. (And holy crap staying uninvolved is going to be hard. I had to erase my counterarguments four times while writing this.) [/META]
Now: here’s the thing about this game. It’s easy. It’s easy because neither of us is wedded in identity or ego to the outcome. It is merely an exercise in evaluated argument schema. I didn’t even take a position on the issue here, I simply responded to invalidity issues in your argument. This is nothing like politics as it really happens. The arguments aren’t soldiers. I’m not trying to win. We haven’t taken sides. So our minds will be fine. But it won’t prove anything.
We’ve also already answered the abortion question in court (I assume the context is the American legal system...) if that criteria is sufficient to establish one of your premises it should be sufficient to establish the issue in it’s entirety. Conversely, if the abortion question is up for debate, so too is the sheltering newborns from the elements questions.
The government can legally force me to pay income taxes against my will. That does not settle the question of whether or not the government can legally force me to do anything against my will. For instance, most people do not believe it is legal for the government to secretly lock me up and torture me without due process. Similarly, there being an obligation to shelter newborn infants does not settle the question of the extent of the sacrifices a government can require of parents for their children. Presumably there are some sacrifices you would find onerous.
Your terms are ambiguous and the substance of the issue lies in their definitions. In particular, you appear to beg the question about when in fact human life begins. Those who support a legal right to abortion often deny that human life begins at conception and have various reasons for this view.
In conclusion 1) the argument you use for one of your premises also argues for the inverse of your conclusion, 2) your subconclusion that women can be forced to be incubators if fetuses are humans does not follow from your premise and 3) you provide no argument for the claim that fetuses are human lives
[META] I’m not trying to win for a reason; it would be improper for me, a person who loves to argue about politics, to create a “test” in which I conveniently get to argue about politics with a community which has a prohibition against arguing about politics; I felt that there would be an implicit ethical violation there. I chose that argument specifically so I wouldn’t get sucked in. Yeah, the axiom I chose was kind of poor; it’s not a position I regularly argue from. Fortunately, even faulty arguments are good for this test. (And holy crap staying uninvolved is going to be hard. I had to erase my counterarguments four times while writing this.) [/META]
Now this is really interesting evidence. But I’m not sure it’s unique to political issues.