I agree that OP was leaning a bit heavy on the advertising methods, and that advertising is almost 100% appeal to emotion. However, I’m not sure that 0% emotional content is quite right either. (For reasons besides argument to moderation.) Occasionally it is necessary to ground things in emotion, to some degree. If I were to argue that dust specs in 3^^^3 people’s eyes is a huge amount of suffering, I’d likely wind up appealing to empathy for that vastly huge unfathomable amount of suffering. The argument relies almost exclusively on logic, but the emotional content drives the point home.
However, maybe a more concrete example of the sorts of methods EAs might employ will make it clearer whether or not they are a good idea. If we do decide to use some emotional content, this seems to be an effective science-based way to do it: http://blog.ncase.me/the-science-of-social-change/
Aside from just outlining some methods, the author deals briefly with the ethics. They note that children who read George Washington’s Cherry Tree were inspired to be more truthful, while the threats implicit in Pinocchio and Boy Who Cried Wolf didn’t motivate them to lie less than the control group. I have no moral problem with showing someone a good role model, and setting a good example, even if that evokes emotions which influence their decisions. That’s still similar to an appeal to emotion, although the Aristotelian scheme the author mentions would classify it as Ethos rather than Pathos. I’m not sure I’d classify it under Dark Arts. (This feels like it could quickly turn into a confusing mess of different definitions for terms. My only claim is that this is a counterexample, where a small non-rational component of a message seems to be permissible.)
It seems worth noting that EAs are already doing this, to some degree. Here are a couple EA and LW superheroes, off of the top of my head:
Stanislav Petrov day was celebrated here a bit over a month ago, although there are others who arguably averted closer cold war near-misses, but on days less convenient to make a holiday out of.
One could argue that we should only discuss these sorts of people purely for how their stories inform the present. However, if their stories have an aspirational impact, then it seems reasonable to share that. I’d have a big problem if EA turned into a click-maximizing advertising campaign, or launched infomercials. I agree with you there. There are some techniques which we definitely shouldn’t employ. But some methods besides pure reason legitimately do seem advisable. But guilting someone out of pocket change is significantly different from acquiring new members by encouraging them to aspire to something, and then giving them the tools to work toward that common goal. It’s not all framing.
The issue with advertising isn’t just the ethics. Set the ethics of advertising aside. The issue with advertising is that you’re bringing people in on the basis of something other than Effective Altruism.
How many new people could EA successfully culturally inculcate each month? Because that’s the maximum number of people you should be successfully reaching each month. EA is fundamentally a rationalist culture; if you introduce non-rationalists faster than you can teach them rationalism, you are destroying your own culture.
I very much agree. My post was leaning more toward the heart to go against the mainstream. There are plenty of tactics I would not endorse. We shouldn’t lie to people, or tell them that Jesus will cry if they don’t give to effective charities. However, I think it’s important to acknowledge and be ok with using some moderate dark arts to promote rationality and effective altruism. If we can motivate people to engage with the EA movement and put their money toward effective charities by getting them to truly care about effective donations, I think that is a quite justifiable use of moderate dark arts. We can be agentive about meeting our goals.
I agree that OP was leaning a bit heavy on the advertising methods, and that advertising is almost 100% appeal to emotion. However, I’m not sure that 0% emotional content is quite right either. (For reasons besides argument to moderation.) Occasionally it is necessary to ground things in emotion, to some degree. If I were to argue that dust specs in 3^^^3 people’s eyes is a huge amount of suffering, I’d likely wind up appealing to empathy for that vastly huge unfathomable amount of suffering. The argument relies almost exclusively on logic, but the emotional content drives the point home.
However, maybe a more concrete example of the sorts of methods EAs might employ will make it clearer whether or not they are a good idea. If we do decide to use some emotional content, this seems to be an effective science-based way to do it: http://blog.ncase.me/the-science-of-social-change/
Aside from just outlining some methods, the author deals briefly with the ethics. They note that children who read George Washington’s Cherry Tree were inspired to be more truthful, while the threats implicit in Pinocchio and Boy Who Cried Wolf didn’t motivate them to lie less than the control group. I have no moral problem with showing someone a good role model, and setting a good example, even if that evokes emotions which influence their decisions. That’s still similar to an appeal to emotion, although the Aristotelian scheme the author mentions would classify it as Ethos rather than Pathos. I’m not sure I’d classify it under Dark Arts. (This feels like it could quickly turn into a confusing mess of different definitions for terms. My only claim is that this is a counterexample, where a small non-rational component of a message seems to be permissible.)
It seems worth noting that EAs are already doing this, to some degree. Here are a couple EA and LW superheroes, off of the top of my head:
Norman Borlough saved a billion lives from starvation by making sweeping improvements in crop yields using industrial agriculture. https://80000hours.org/2011/11/high-impact-science/
Viktor Zhdanov convinced the World Health Assembly, by a margin of only 2 votes, to eradicate Smallpox, saving perhaps hundreds of millions of lives. https://80000hours.org/2012/02/in-praise-of-viktor-zhdanov/
Stanislav Petrov day was celebrated here a bit over a month ago, although there are others who arguably averted closer cold war near-misses, but on days less convenient to make a holiday out of.
One could argue that we should only discuss these sorts of people purely for how their stories inform the present. However, if their stories have an aspirational impact, then it seems reasonable to share that. I’d have a big problem if EA turned into a click-maximizing advertising campaign, or launched infomercials. I agree with you there. There are some techniques which we definitely shouldn’t employ. But some methods besides pure reason legitimately do seem advisable. But guilting someone out of pocket change is significantly different from acquiring new members by encouraging them to aspire to something, and then giving them the tools to work toward that common goal. It’s not all framing.
The issue with advertising isn’t just the ethics. Set the ethics of advertising aside. The issue with advertising is that you’re bringing people in on the basis of something other than Effective Altruism.
How many new people could EA successfully culturally inculcate each month? Because that’s the maximum number of people you should be successfully reaching each month. EA is fundamentally a rationalist culture; if you introduce non-rationalists faster than you can teach them rationalism, you are destroying your own culture.
How do you foresee this going for EA’s culture?
I very much agree. My post was leaning more toward the heart to go against the mainstream. There are plenty of tactics I would not endorse. We shouldn’t lie to people, or tell them that Jesus will cry if they don’t give to effective charities. However, I think it’s important to acknowledge and be ok with using some moderate dark arts to promote rationality and effective altruism. If we can motivate people to engage with the EA movement and put their money toward effective charities by getting them to truly care about effective donations, I think that is a quite justifiable use of moderate dark arts. We can be agentive about meeting our goals.
P.S. Nice username!