Conflict of interest disclaimer: I live in NYC and think bringing MIRI here would be good for our local community
I would point out that being an hour by train from the city is significantly closer than an hour by car. An hour by train is an hour of relaxation or productive work (your choice), whereas an hour by car is an hour lost. An hour by train is also reliably an hour, whereas an hour by car puts your schedule at the mercy of traffic. Finally, an hour by train is accessible to everyone, whereas an hour by car requires possessing a car, being proficient in its use, and being confident of your ability to focus for the entire ride.
Apart from transit, I’d urge you to take weather seriously. I lived near Seattle for two years, and going without sunlight for months at a time drained me. (Going without proper storms messed with me too, but that’s probably just me.) I’m told working at MIRI, staring into how doomed we are on a daily basis, can be depressing. Best not to combine those.
I’ll also say that I have more confidence in New York’s cultural future. It’s hard to estimate the risk that Seattle will develop anti-epistemic happy death spirals like San Fransisco did. If I had to handwave it, I’d say 30% within the next 10 years. NYC’s sheer size and internal diversity give it cultural inertia. Odds of something like that happening here I’d put below 1%.
Apart from transit, I’d urge you to take weather seriously. I lived near Seattle for two years, and going without sunlight for months at a time drained me.
This is a big problem for me. I think that if we move near Seattle, there’s something like a 40% chance I’ll just completely bail after the first or second year and be like “well, I guess this life plan isn’t for me after all”. But I’ve sort of been keeping quiet about it ’cause as far as I know I’m the only one who’s part of the move and has severe SAD. Didn’t want to make considerations even more complicated just for my sake. But if people regularly move to Seattle and then develop significant SAD symptoms, that seems really important to know.
Purely for completeness, I’ll go ahead and represent the opposite preference: I am noticeably energized by overcast days, and I enjoy rain. Long, unbroken sequences of sunny days feel oppressive to me. I think my ideal week would be overcast 4 days, medium-light rain 2 of those days, and sunny on the remaining 3 days for evaporation & variety.
Of course, I realize that pluviophiles are a small minority, so any community/subcultural hub in a chronically cloudy place will suffer an excess SAD burden.
And it’s not just the number of overcast days that is a problem. Bellingham is very far north—enough so you get significant swings in day length between summer and winter—that is great in the summer, it is still broad daylight out at 11pm at night—but winter days are really short. Sunset is around 4:30, or earlier, from mid-Nov to mid-Jan. The sun has gone down before you get off work. Here is a link to sunrise-sunset data for Bellingham https://sunrise-sunset.org/us/bellingham-wa/2020/10.
I think I like rain and overcast days (though I’ve never lived in a place like Seattle or London, so maybe I’m underestimating how annoying I’d find it).
Separately, I suspect that my productivity takes a dive when there are fewer daylight hours: my brain wants to say ‘the day is over’ when the sun starts setting, which is not ideal if that’s at 5pm.
Sunlight changes my mood pretty significantly, and I’d definitely be sad to move to Seattle for this reason. Though it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me.
Same for me. Good weather in the Bay is quite good, and I would probably be willing to 2x my rent to have Bay weather in most places. This more than eliminates any rent advantages of basically any non-Bay location for me.
Yeah. I think I’d currently also be willing to 2x my current rent to be able to sustain this level of weather relative to e.g. Manchester (where I grew up).
An hour by train is an hour of relaxation or productive work
I think this depends a lot on whether it is during rush hour or not. I spent three months commuting ~60 minutes into the city from Long Island when I attended a coding bootcamp. Taking the train during rush hour was always a hectic, very much not relaxing experience. I tried to do work on my laptop, but it was always crowded and awkward and at some point I just gave up. The other people I know who commute into the city say the same thing.
On the other hand, if you’re taking the train eg. at 1pm or something, that I’ve found is usually a pleasant experience.
PS: On Friday and Saturday nights, it can be quite annoying dealing with the drunk partiers.
Yep, ‘work outside the city and have fun inside it’ is my model, and is part of why I’d expect the train ride to be nice. E.g., I could imagine getting a hotel room and spending Saturdays in the city.
One of my co-workers estimated the cost of ‘book a hotel room every Saturday night in Manhattan and thus effectively live there on weekends’ at $1,000 / month.
I’ve been traveling into the city for social reasons and have found good hotels at under $150 / night reliably. You’d want a hotel rather than AirBnB because cleaning fees make AirBnBs bad for one night stays.
Conflict of interest disclaimer: I live in NYC and think bringing MIRI here would be good for our local community
I would point out that being an hour by train from the city is significantly closer than an hour by car. An hour by train is an hour of relaxation or productive work (your choice), whereas an hour by car is an hour lost. An hour by train is also reliably an hour, whereas an hour by car puts your schedule at the mercy of traffic. Finally, an hour by train is accessible to everyone, whereas an hour by car requires possessing a car, being proficient in its use, and being confident of your ability to focus for the entire ride.
Apart from transit, I’d urge you to take weather seriously. I lived near Seattle for two years, and going without sunlight for months at a time drained me. (Going without proper storms messed with me too, but that’s probably just me.) I’m told working at MIRI, staring into how doomed we are on a daily basis, can be depressing. Best not to combine those.
I’ll also say that I have more confidence in New York’s cultural future. It’s hard to estimate the risk that Seattle will develop anti-epistemic happy death spirals like San Fransisco did. If I had to handwave it, I’d say 30% within the next 10 years. NYC’s sheer size and internal diversity give it cultural inertia. Odds of something like that happening here I’d put below 1%.
This is a big problem for me. I think that if we move near Seattle, there’s something like a 40% chance I’ll just completely bail after the first or second year and be like “well, I guess this life plan isn’t for me after all”. But I’ve sort of been keeping quiet about it ’cause as far as I know I’m the only one who’s part of the move and has severe SAD. Didn’t want to make considerations even more complicated just for my sake. But if people regularly move to Seattle and then develop significant SAD symptoms, that seems really important to know.
Purely for completeness, I’ll go ahead and represent the opposite preference: I am noticeably energized by overcast days, and I enjoy rain. Long, unbroken sequences of sunny days feel oppressive to me. I think my ideal week would be overcast 4 days, medium-light rain 2 of those days, and sunny on the remaining 3 days for evaporation & variety.
Of course, I realize that pluviophiles are a small minority, so any community/subcultural hub in a chronically cloudy place will suffer an excess SAD burden.
And it’s not just the number of overcast days that is a problem. Bellingham is very far north—enough so you get significant swings in day length between summer and winter—that is great in the summer, it is still broad daylight out at 11pm at night—but winter days are really short. Sunset is around 4:30, or earlier, from mid-Nov to mid-Jan. The sun has gone down before you get off work. Here is a link to sunrise-sunset data for Bellingham https://sunrise-sunset.org/us/bellingham-wa/2020/10.
I think I like rain and overcast days (though I’ve never lived in a place like Seattle or London, so maybe I’m underestimating how annoying I’d find it).
Separately, I suspect that my productivity takes a dive when there are fewer daylight hours: my brain wants to say ‘the day is over’ when the sun starts setting, which is not ideal if that’s at 5pm.
Sunlight changes my mood pretty significantly, and I’d definitely be sad to move to Seattle for this reason. Though it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me.
Same for me. Good weather in the Bay is quite good, and I would probably be willing to 2x my rent to have Bay weather in most places. This more than eliminates any rent advantages of basically any non-Bay location for me.
Yeah. I think I’d currently also be willing to 2x my current rent to be able to sustain this level of weather relative to e.g. Manchester (where I grew up).
‘Below 1%’ is a very small number!
Agreed. I’m quite bullish on NYC and its culture but 1% seems too low.
I think this depends a lot on whether it is during rush hour or not. I spent three months commuting ~60 minutes into the city from Long Island when I attended a coding bootcamp. Taking the train during rush hour was always a hectic, very much not relaxing experience. I tried to do work on my laptop, but it was always crowded and awkward and at some point I just gave up. The other people I know who commute into the city say the same thing.
On the other hand, if you’re taking the train eg. at 1pm or something, that I’ve found is usually a pleasant experience.
PS: On Friday and Saturday nights, it can be quite annoying dealing with the drunk partiers.
Seeing as MIRIans will be working outside the city and having fun inside it (regardless of where they live), they won’t be traveling with the rush.
Ah, good point.
Yep, ‘work outside the city and have fun inside it’ is my model, and is part of why I’d expect the train ride to be nice. E.g., I could imagine getting a hotel room and spending Saturdays in the city.
One of my co-workers estimated the cost of ‘book a hotel room every Saturday night in Manhattan and thus effectively live there on weekends’ at $1,000 / month.
I’ve been traveling into the city for social reasons and have found good hotels at under $150 / night reliably. You’d want a hotel rather than AirBnB because cleaning fees make AirBnBs bad for one night stays.