What kinds of designs could exist that aren’t common today?
There are at least three, very successful, democratic designs, though TINA shields us from their baneful influence: Switzerland, China, and Singapore.
If we measure their implementation of six components of democracy–formal, elective, popular, procedural, operational and substantive–we find none of the three follows (slave state) Athens’ model.
Each implements ‘of the people, by the people, for the people’ uniquely.
The Swiss invest unimaginable time and energy voting for almost everything,: call it ‘input legitimacy’. A 37-year-old Zuricher has had the opportunity to take part in 548 referenda, 181 of them federal, 176 cantonal, and 191 municipal. Average turnout is 45% so he has voted in about 246 referenda.
Second place goes to China, both in its citizens’ estimation and in decades of surveys by Gallup, Harvard, YouGov, and Edelman. The PRC uses heavy opinion polling to guide policy formation, and amateur politicians to provide democratic oversight. It’s 90% cheaper than Swiss democracy but still runs it a close second.
Singapore’s third-place model blends Confucian officialdom and British parliamentarianism and depends upon outcome legitimacy: the ruling/founding party has always been in power because it so consistently produces good outcomes that nobody seriously considers chancing alternatives.
You describe three systems (Switzerland, Singapore and China) as “very successful” I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on what metrics you believe are marks of success. You offer 6 categories, but I have trouble seeing how you might connect them to outcomes.
Specifically, for me at least PRC feels like an odd include on a list of “very successful, democratic designs”, as (1) it is not widely described as democratic, and (2 - more relevantly) by most of the metrics I would reach for (eg. GDP per capita, global happiness index, press freedom index, corruption index) PRC is also not really successful. For example, taking corruption (maybe this goes in your procedural category), then according to (https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021), Singapore is the 4th least corrupt country on Earth, Switzerland 7th, and China 66th.
Fourth, seventh, and 66th out of ~200 is quite good? I agree that there are aspects of all of these nations which are objectionable, particularly China, but corruption seems like an odd example. I think there’s a fair argument that the PRC has been extremely successful in many metrics given the position of the nation in 1945 - that China was in extreme poverty and I wouldn’t have expected it to improve so quickly. China is undemocratic in many ways in practice, particularly press freedom and freedom of speech, but on a gears level, the system of local and regional governance is a relatively effective democracy.
I agree 66th of of 200 is pretty good. My general point is that to talk about “success” you need to already know what winning looks like. Low corruption is certainly not the #1 thing, and probably not in the top 10 for most people. But it probably makes it into the top 100. Maybe GDP per capita is a in the top 10. These discussions (what is good) are sort of needed to ground any kind of discussion about whether a particular system produces good outcomes. I singled out China simply because the other two on this list would (by the kinds of metrics I would reach for) be world-leading (A/A+), while China would not be.
For example, when you say that China has improved quickly since 1945 you are presumably using an economic metric (GDP)? The problem with going all the way back to 1945 is that systems change. In my weird and unscientific “how efficient do I feel different governments are” I can give the 2022 Chinese government a fair score, but I would score the 1950′s and 60′s Chinese governments very, very low.
What kinds of designs could exist that aren’t common today?
There are at least three, very successful, democratic designs, though TINA shields us from their baneful influence: Switzerland, China, and Singapore.
If we measure their implementation of six components of democracy–formal, elective, popular, procedural, operational and substantive–we find none of the three follows (slave state) Athens’ model.
Each implements ‘of the people, by the people, for the people’ uniquely.
The Swiss invest unimaginable time and energy voting for almost everything,: call it ‘input legitimacy’. A 37-year-old Zuricher has had the opportunity to take part in 548 referenda, 181 of them federal, 176 cantonal, and 191 municipal. Average turnout is 45% so he has voted in about 246 referenda.
Second place goes to China, both in its citizens’ estimation and in decades of surveys by Gallup, Harvard, YouGov, and Edelman. The PRC uses heavy opinion polling to guide policy formation, and amateur politicians to provide democratic oversight. It’s 90% cheaper than Swiss democracy but still runs it a close second.
Singapore’s third-place model blends Confucian officialdom and British parliamentarianism and depends upon outcome legitimacy: the ruling/founding party has always been in power because it so consistently produces good outcomes that nobody seriously considers chancing alternatives.
More on this from Daniel Bell’s The China Model: Political Meritocracy and the Limits of Democracy and China’s New Confucianism: Politics and Everyday Life in a Changing Society.
For a more comprehensive explanation of China’s success read Why China Leads the World: Talent at the Top, Data in the Middle, Democracy at the Bottom, by me.
You describe three systems (Switzerland, Singapore and China) as “very successful” I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on what metrics you believe are marks of success. You offer 6 categories, but I have trouble seeing how you might connect them to outcomes.
Specifically, for me at least PRC feels like an odd include on a list of “very successful, democratic designs”, as (1) it is not widely described as democratic, and (2 - more relevantly) by most of the metrics I would reach for (eg. GDP per capita, global happiness index, press freedom index, corruption index) PRC is also not really successful. For example, taking corruption (maybe this goes in your procedural category), then according to (https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021), Singapore is the 4th least corrupt country on Earth, Switzerland 7th, and China 66th.
So what features do you associate with success?
Fourth, seventh, and 66th out of ~200 is quite good? I agree that there are aspects of all of these nations which are objectionable, particularly China, but corruption seems like an odd example. I think there’s a fair argument that the PRC has been extremely successful in many metrics given the position of the nation in 1945 - that China was in extreme poverty and I wouldn’t have expected it to improve so quickly. China is undemocratic in many ways in practice, particularly press freedom and freedom of speech, but on a gears level, the system of local and regional governance is a relatively effective democracy.
I agree 66th of of 200 is pretty good. My general point is that to talk about “success” you need to already know what winning looks like. Low corruption is certainly not the #1 thing, and probably not in the top 10 for most people. But it probably makes it into the top 100. Maybe GDP per capita is a in the top 10. These discussions (what is good) are sort of needed to ground any kind of discussion about whether a particular system produces good outcomes. I singled out China simply because the other two on this list would (by the kinds of metrics I would reach for) be world-leading (A/A+), while China would not be.
For example, when you say that China has improved quickly since 1945 you are presumably using an economic metric (GDP)? The problem with going all the way back to 1945 is that systems change. In my weird and unscientific “how efficient do I feel different governments are” I can give the 2022 Chinese government a fair score, but I would score the 1950′s and 60′s Chinese governments very, very low.