Your enemy is not the client; your enemy is other artists. They’re the ones glutting the market and driving the prices down.
The typical strategy for labor is to unionize to exclude competition, but I don’t see that ever working out for artists. It’s too difficult to fight scabs, and very few people go into art because they always wanted to own their own small business (and yet, they often find that’s what art is), so the level of business sense seems to be lower than most fields.
Of my favorite artists, most of them work for $10 an hour or less most of the time. I don’t know the exact numbers for the pair that is at the top of their field, but I put p=.99 that together they’re pulling in less than $100k and put p=.8 that, combined, they’re working at least 80 hours a week. That is to say, I’m fairly certain that they’re working for less than $25 an hour, despite being a fantastic combination of talent and experience. With art/fiction, you are a success if you manage to pay the bills with just your creative work. The reasons for that are pretty deep, and so unfortunately are hard to change.
It does suck that the internet means I have to compete with thousands (millions?) of people across the globe. And you’re right, that’s not the client’s fault. New, cheaper technology makes it easier and easier to become an artist who can at least put together something decent. But I recognize that that’s just the economic reality.
The reason I’m so vocally opposed to contest-labor, and why I think artists should show solidarity whenever possible against it, is that it’s dishonest. Yes, technically all the rules are there in writing. But people see a payment tag of $300 on 99artists and think it means a payment of $300, when what it really means is about $10 (if you know you’re genuinely in the top bracket of talent, maybe it’s closer to $25. Dunno). Even if you know that it technically means $10, you have to constantly remind yourself of it. And that’s a wage that you seriously cannot live off. We may not be able to unionize to keep wages at $25/hour, but we should at least be able to unionize to prevent wages from becoming $.50/hour. Sites like Scriptlance, on the other hand, might drive rates down to $100 for a logo. But at least $100 actually means $100. I’m fine with that.
It’s been a while since I emphasized this point, so it’s worth repeating: I’m not actually opposed to SIAI doing this. When you’re donating time to charity, you’re not trying to make a living, you’re just donating time. That’s fine. But because it also reinforces the image of contest-labor = reasonable, and because this is a blog that is specifically dedicated to helping people make more rational decisions about economic utility, I think it’s important to emphasize that this is not a legitimate way for artists to earn money.
But because it also reinforces the image of contest-labor = reasonable, and because this is a blog that is specifically dedicated to helping people make more rational decisions about economic utility, I think it’s important to emphasize that this is not a legitimate way for artists to earn money.
I agree that contest labor is a bad idea for artists, which is why I voted you up. But I’m not sure it’s a bad thing for SIAI to be using contest labor. If you’re hiring, it’s oftentimes the rational thing to do. Prizes for creative work are also seen favorably by economists (particularly Hanson), and so promoting them may be worth it even if a subset of creative professionals responds irrationally.
But I’m not sure it’s a bad thing for SIAI to be using contest labor.
My point wasn’t that it’s a bad thing for SIAI to do, but that I felt that if SIAI is going to do it, it’s important to discuss the issue from an artist’s perspective as well. Without that discussion, the contest encourages both businesses and artists to participate in contest-labor. And while it may be rational to try and get as much free stuff as possible, it’s not rational to give away free stuff. Less Wrong shouldn’t be encouraging people to do irrational things.
Edit: in case it’s still unclear, I’m talking about Less Wrong encouraging (by omission of a more involved discussion) artists to participate in contests that are NOT charity oriented.
I also think it’s somewhat shaky to encourage people (clients) to do things that are only rational because they make it easy to take advantage of people’s irrationality. I wouldn’t say it’s wrong per se, but it’s something that’s cause me to pause and evaluate the surrounding issues.
Your enemy is not the client; your enemy is other artists. They’re the ones glutting the market and driving the prices down.
The typical strategy for labor is to unionize to exclude competition, but I don’t see that ever working out for artists. It’s too difficult to fight scabs, and very few people go into art because they always wanted to own their own small business (and yet, they often find that’s what art is), so the level of business sense seems to be lower than most fields.
Of my favorite artists, most of them work for $10 an hour or less most of the time. I don’t know the exact numbers for the pair that is at the top of their field, but I put p=.99 that together they’re pulling in less than $100k and put p=.8 that, combined, they’re working at least 80 hours a week. That is to say, I’m fairly certain that they’re working for less than $25 an hour, despite being a fantastic combination of talent and experience. With art/fiction, you are a success if you manage to pay the bills with just your creative work. The reasons for that are pretty deep, and so unfortunately are hard to change.
It does suck that the internet means I have to compete with thousands (millions?) of people across the globe. And you’re right, that’s not the client’s fault. New, cheaper technology makes it easier and easier to become an artist who can at least put together something decent. But I recognize that that’s just the economic reality.
The reason I’m so vocally opposed to contest-labor, and why I think artists should show solidarity whenever possible against it, is that it’s dishonest. Yes, technically all the rules are there in writing. But people see a payment tag of $300 on 99artists and think it means a payment of $300, when what it really means is about $10 (if you know you’re genuinely in the top bracket of talent, maybe it’s closer to $25. Dunno). Even if you know that it technically means $10, you have to constantly remind yourself of it. And that’s a wage that you seriously cannot live off. We may not be able to unionize to keep wages at $25/hour, but we should at least be able to unionize to prevent wages from becoming $.50/hour. Sites like Scriptlance, on the other hand, might drive rates down to $100 for a logo. But at least $100 actually means $100. I’m fine with that.
It’s been a while since I emphasized this point, so it’s worth repeating: I’m not actually opposed to SIAI doing this. When you’re donating time to charity, you’re not trying to make a living, you’re just donating time. That’s fine. But because it also reinforces the image of contest-labor = reasonable, and because this is a blog that is specifically dedicated to helping people make more rational decisions about economic utility, I think it’s important to emphasize that this is not a legitimate way for artists to earn money.
I agree that contest labor is a bad idea for artists, which is why I voted you up. But I’m not sure it’s a bad thing for SIAI to be using contest labor. If you’re hiring, it’s oftentimes the rational thing to do. Prizes for creative work are also seen favorably by economists (particularly Hanson), and so promoting them may be worth it even if a subset of creative professionals responds irrationally.
My point wasn’t that it’s a bad thing for SIAI to do, but that I felt that if SIAI is going to do it, it’s important to discuss the issue from an artist’s perspective as well. Without that discussion, the contest encourages both businesses and artists to participate in contest-labor. And while it may be rational to try and get as much free stuff as possible, it’s not rational to give away free stuff. Less Wrong shouldn’t be encouraging people to do irrational things.
Edit: in case it’s still unclear, I’m talking about Less Wrong encouraging (by omission of a more involved discussion) artists to participate in contests that are NOT charity oriented.
I also think it’s somewhat shaky to encourage people (clients) to do things that are only rational because they make it easy to take advantage of people’s irrationality. I wouldn’t say it’s wrong per se, but it’s something that’s cause me to pause and evaluate the surrounding issues.