Most cryobiologists don’t know or care about cryonics, because it is the purview of a tiny (< 3000 peple) and eccentric minority.
The Society for Cryobiology doesn’t allow cryonicists to become members and has issued statements that describe “cadaver freezing”, as currently practiced by cryonicists, as an “act of faith, not science”
Though Fahy is first and foremost a cryobiologist, he has spoken at life extension and cryonics conferences, and he is not at all opposed to seeing his technology used to improve cryonics.
Does he endorse cryonics or is he signed up himself for cryopreservation?
The Society for Cryobiology consists of only ~280 members (by contrast, the Society of Neuroscience has 40,000 members). Furthermore, those ~280 largely specialize in frogs, oocytes, etc.… but not in organ cryopreservation. For whatever it’s worth, focus only on organ cryopreservationists and you’ll find the percentage of cryonics supporters drastically increase.
I know you skimmed this article, but I encourage you to read it again. There you’ll find your answer to Greg Fahy. Also, Brian Wowk is an organ cryopreservationist who supports cryonics. Peter Mazur, one of the most prominent cryobiologists discussed in the previous link, recently referenced Wowk’s paper on the thermodynamic aspects of vitrification.
Furthermore, those ~280 largely specialize in frogs, oocytes, etc.… but not in organ cryopreservation.
Reference? If I understand correctly, most of cryobiological research, including these rabbit kidney cryopreservation results, is published in the official journal of the Society for Cryobiology. Fahy used to be (still is?) a member of the Society and also the treasurer.
For whatever it’s worth, focus only on organ cryopreservationists and you’ll find the percentage of cryonics supporters drastically increase.
Reference?
I know you skimmed this article, but I encourage you to read it again. There you’ll find your answer to Greg Fahy.
“Darwin” cites Fahy on an incident of a paper that was apparently rejected, according to Fahy because of prejudice, though others say it was rejected because it was bad science, he cites him again on uncontroversial arguments for vitrification.
I can’t find anything implying that Fahy endorses cryonics as currently practiced. There is clearly a great difference between saying that cryopreservation of whole humans or human brains is an interesting area of research and suggesting people to make arrangments today to be cryopreserved with methods of unproven effectiveness.
Brian Wowk is an organ cryopreservationist who supports cryonics.
I’ve found this video of Wowk speaking at an Alcor conference. I find it quite balanced.
He mentions all the problematic issues with brain freezing and vitrification. He claims that the vitrification injury may be reversible in principle and in practice with future technology, but he admits that the argument is somewhat “hand-wavy” and won’t convince critics.
I do disagree with the conclusion that, even if cryonics has a low probablity of success, we should do it. It is the sort of “Pascal’s mugging” argument that is not instrumentally rational.
I can’t find anything implying that GF endorses cryonics as currently practiced.
ಠ_ಠ
Be honest. Did you simply ctrl-F and search for his name in that article? If yes, then here is a paragraph you missed: “In 1981, an internationally renowned organ cryopreservation researcher was called into his supervisor’s office (the supervisor was also an Officer and Director of the Society) and threatened with dismissal if he continued not only his low profile association with cryonicists, but also his suspension membership. It was also pointed out to this researcher that if his association with or belief in cryonics in any way became public he would never again get grants from the NIH or other routine sources. This individual, who was already wearing his suspension bracelet on his ankle to avoid public comment, was thus faced with a terrible dilemma: a choice between his chance at continued life via cryonics, or his career.”
Assuming you won’t take the time to read that lengthy article, here is a shorter one. Look for the part about the prominent Southern California scientist recommending cryopreservation for someone severely afflicted with Alzheimer’s. Like the Cold War piece above, the Marcelon Johnson article is also written by Mike “Darwin.” If his nickname from his schoolmates irks you, then you’ll love this piece: Dr. Dave Crippen, Professor of Critical Care Medicine and Neurological Surgery at the UPMC Medical Center in Pittsburgh, compares Mike to—drum roll please—Richard Feynman. For the record, I disagree with that comparison and I think Mike disagrees too (・。・;)
Both of your “Reference?” inquiries were historically answered in the Cold War article above. Assuming you haven’t done this yet, google the words “organ cryopreservation” just for fun. Not only does Fahy’s name dominate the results, but you should also see a 1988 book by David Pegg, who was mentioned in the Cold War article. Of course, as I made clear to this Reddit user, simple googling can be misleading (I apologize to Less Wrong users for my snark at that link… I tend to get irritated by stubborn individuals...)
Well anyways, it’s impossible for me to know exactly how many organ cryopreservationists are currently in their labs—Elsevier searches do not inspire confidence—and their true views on cryonics. For example, here’s a recent article on porcine uterus cryopreservation. Who are these authors? Did they show up at the annual meeting of the Society for Cryobiology in June? And even if they did, would they admit to Ben they support cryonics in light of the Society’s strained history? Whatever the case, I always appreciated this article by Fahy, where he concludes: “Even after currently-possible manipulations of physics and biology have all been explored, nanotechnology will come into play, allowing someone to enter the field from a wholly new perspective and change the rules of the game in more radical ways than most cryobiologists living today can imagine.”
XD
I do disagree with the conclusion that, even if cryonics has a low probablity of success, we should do it. It is the sort of “Pascal’s mugging” argument that is not instrumentally rational.
I’m not going to argue the importance of cryonics in a comment section. I just want to focus on simpler corrections for now. Or in other words, please stop insinuating that no cryobiologists support cryonics.
I don’t know, but he was/is involved with a stillborn cryoincs startup called Timeship. Also, he spoke at a cryonics and life extension conference recently with people like Ralph Merkle, and does seem to endorse present vitrification-based cryopreservation as “good enough.” Search youtube for “fahy” and you should be able to find it.
The Society for Cryobiology doesn’t allow cryonicists to become members and has issued statements that describe “cadaver freezing”, as currently practiced by cryonicists, as an “act of faith, not science”
Does he endorse cryonics or is he signed up himself for cryopreservation?
The Society for Cryobiology consists of only ~280 members (by contrast, the Society of Neuroscience has 40,000 members). Furthermore, those ~280 largely specialize in frogs, oocytes, etc.… but not in organ cryopreservation. For whatever it’s worth, focus only on organ cryopreservationists and you’ll find the percentage of cryonics supporters drastically increase.
I know you skimmed this article, but I encourage you to read it again. There you’ll find your answer to Greg Fahy. Also, Brian Wowk is an organ cryopreservationist who supports cryonics. Peter Mazur, one of the most prominent cryobiologists discussed in the previous link, recently referenced Wowk’s paper on the thermodynamic aspects of vitrification.
Reference? If I understand correctly, most of cryobiological research, including these rabbit kidney cryopreservation results, is published in the official journal of the Society for Cryobiology. Fahy used to be (still is?) a member of the Society and also the treasurer.
Reference?
“Darwin” cites Fahy on an incident of a paper that was apparently rejected, according to Fahy because of prejudice, though others say it was rejected because it was bad science, he cites him again on uncontroversial arguments for vitrification.
I can’t find anything implying that Fahy endorses cryonics as currently practiced. There is clearly a great difference between saying that cryopreservation of whole humans or human brains is an interesting area of research and suggesting people to make arrangments today to be cryopreserved with methods of unproven effectiveness.
I’ve found this video of Wowk speaking at an Alcor conference. I find it quite balanced.
He mentions all the problematic issues with brain freezing and vitrification. He claims that the vitrification injury may be reversible in principle and in practice with future technology, but he admits that the argument is somewhat “hand-wavy” and won’t convince critics.
I do disagree with the conclusion that, even if cryonics has a low probablity of success, we should do it. It is the sort of “Pascal’s mugging” argument that is not instrumentally rational.
ಠ_ಠ
Be honest. Did you simply ctrl-F and search for his name in that article? If yes, then here is a paragraph you missed: “In 1981, an internationally renowned organ cryopreservation researcher was called into his supervisor’s office (the supervisor was also an Officer and Director of the Society) and threatened with dismissal if he continued not only his low profile association with cryonicists, but also his suspension membership. It was also pointed out to this researcher that if his association with or belief in cryonics in any way became public he would never again get grants from the NIH or other routine sources. This individual, who was already wearing his suspension bracelet on his ankle to avoid public comment, was thus faced with a terrible dilemma: a choice between his chance at continued life via cryonics, or his career.”
Assuming you won’t take the time to read that lengthy article, here is a shorter one. Look for the part about the prominent Southern California scientist recommending cryopreservation for someone severely afflicted with Alzheimer’s. Like the Cold War piece above, the Marcelon Johnson article is also written by Mike “Darwin.” If his nickname from his schoolmates irks you, then you’ll love this piece: Dr. Dave Crippen, Professor of Critical Care Medicine and Neurological Surgery at the UPMC Medical Center in Pittsburgh, compares Mike to—drum roll please—Richard Feynman. For the record, I disagree with that comparison and I think Mike disagrees too (・。・;)
Both of your “Reference?” inquiries were historically answered in the Cold War article above. Assuming you haven’t done this yet, google the words “organ cryopreservation” just for fun. Not only does Fahy’s name dominate the results, but you should also see a 1988 book by David Pegg, who was mentioned in the Cold War article. Of course, as I made clear to this Reddit user, simple googling can be misleading (I apologize to Less Wrong users for my snark at that link… I tend to get irritated by stubborn individuals...)
Well anyways, it’s impossible for me to know exactly how many organ cryopreservationists are currently in their labs—Elsevier searches do not inspire confidence—and their true views on cryonics. For example, here’s a recent article on porcine uterus cryopreservation. Who are these authors? Did they show up at the annual meeting of the Society for Cryobiology in June? And even if they did, would they admit to Ben they support cryonics in light of the Society’s strained history? Whatever the case, I always appreciated this article by Fahy, where he concludes: “Even after currently-possible manipulations of physics and biology have all been explored, nanotechnology will come into play, allowing someone to enter the field from a wholly new perspective and change the rules of the game in more radical ways than most cryobiologists living today can imagine.”
XD
I’m not going to argue the importance of cryonics in a comment section. I just want to focus on simpler corrections for now. Or in other words, please stop insinuating that no cryobiologists support cryonics.
I don’t know, but he was/is involved with a stillborn cryoincs startup called Timeship. Also, he spoke at a cryonics and life extension conference recently with people like Ralph Merkle, and does seem to endorse present vitrification-based cryopreservation as “good enough.” Search youtube for “fahy” and you should be able to find it.