First, I haven’t read much of NR literature beyond Moldbug, and my post was mainly aimed at the tie in between him and libertarianism. When you don’t expect to have the numbers to win by voting, what then?
I don’t see NRx providing a clear difference between monarchy and modern demotic dictatorship
I don’t see Moldbug as interested in demotic dictatorship. The lack of support in the “demos” is the problem.
Furthermore I don’t understand the whole idea of starting on top, i.e. designing a form of government, instead of starting in the bottom, like the morals and culture of the age.
I think the premise is that they don’t have the numbers, and are unlikely to get them.
because we as a people became more depraved and not worthy for it e.g. having too much envy.
Envy and lust for power. The Master Slave impulse is a problem on both sides.
The Master Slave impulse is a problem on both sides.
I don’t think so… I think it is more like the ego-driven feeling of “why is he better than me?” the issue not directly being power, but rather giving someone power being a strong signal they are “better”.
The problem of the ego is something I have been trying to figure out for about 15-17 years now. This can mean two things, either I am knowledgeable about it, or I developed a strong bias seeing the problem of the ego everywhere, even where it does not apply. So it is a topic I can be very right or very wrong about but little in-between. By the problem of the ego I mean I had some exposure in the Buddhist approaches of how the human psyche works, and quickly realized that the problem of modern people is not as much desire or anger, but more like vanity/pride. For example, a huge reason why we are atheists is not simply because it is irrational, but because theism demands a sense of knee-bending humility and submission that goes right against todays culture and mores.
Take this example. Scratch the gay-marriage debates and what you find is that the primary motivation is not securing pragmatic advantages for gays but rather not making them feel like second-class citizens. A grand social approval / validation. So there is this huge motive today that people absolutely loath feeling second-class or less worthy than others. This is some sort of a pride and I think this lurks behind a lot of political stuff today. One is that elected politicians are servants (ministers) of the public hence cannot feel superior to it. The idea being being uncomfortable with having rulers who could be said in some sense superior or more worthy. This is not so much envy as hurt pride.
This is difficult to discuss on LW because the whole process of Rationalism means setting aside this kind of pride, and probably most of you did it unconsciously long ago. Because with this kind of pride self-improvement through the outside view would not be possibble.
Is it clear what I am driving at? This is such a well-know problem to me that I don’t really find the best words to express them, I belly-feel the problem of the ego since I realized at about 20 that me being rebellious against my parents at 16 was not about the limitations they set to me being too stringent, but more like the hurt-pride feeling how the eff they have the nerve to set me limits and give me orders, do they think they are better than me, that kind of think (around 20 I realized this issue through Buddhist meditation techniques and now am 37)
I don’t see Moldbug as interested in demotic dictatorship. The lack of support in the “demos” is the problem.
The issue is still what is the difference. Some dude says now I rule and you shut up. How to tell if it is proper monarchy or yet another dictator?
First, I haven’t read much of NR literature beyond Moldbug, and my post was mainly aimed at the tie in between him and libertarianism. When you don’t expect to have the numbers to win by voting, what then?
I don’t see Moldbug as interested in demotic dictatorship. The lack of support in the “demos” is the problem.
I think the premise is that they don’t have the numbers, and are unlikely to get them.
Envy and lust for power. The Master Slave impulse is a problem on both sides.
I don’t think so… I think it is more like the ego-driven feeling of “why is he better than me?” the issue not directly being power, but rather giving someone power being a strong signal they are “better”.
The problem of the ego is something I have been trying to figure out for about 15-17 years now. This can mean two things, either I am knowledgeable about it, or I developed a strong bias seeing the problem of the ego everywhere, even where it does not apply. So it is a topic I can be very right or very wrong about but little in-between. By the problem of the ego I mean I had some exposure in the Buddhist approaches of how the human psyche works, and quickly realized that the problem of modern people is not as much desire or anger, but more like vanity/pride. For example, a huge reason why we are atheists is not simply because it is irrational, but because theism demands a sense of knee-bending humility and submission that goes right against todays culture and mores.
Take this example. Scratch the gay-marriage debates and what you find is that the primary motivation is not securing pragmatic advantages for gays but rather not making them feel like second-class citizens. A grand social approval / validation. So there is this huge motive today that people absolutely loath feeling second-class or less worthy than others. This is some sort of a pride and I think this lurks behind a lot of political stuff today. One is that elected politicians are servants (ministers) of the public hence cannot feel superior to it. The idea being being uncomfortable with having rulers who could be said in some sense superior or more worthy. This is not so much envy as hurt pride.
This is difficult to discuss on LW because the whole process of Rationalism means setting aside this kind of pride, and probably most of you did it unconsciously long ago. Because with this kind of pride self-improvement through the outside view would not be possibble.
Is it clear what I am driving at? This is such a well-know problem to me that I don’t really find the best words to express them, I belly-feel the problem of the ego since I realized at about 20 that me being rebellious against my parents at 16 was not about the limitations they set to me being too stringent, but more like the hurt-pride feeling how the eff they have the nerve to set me limits and give me orders, do they think they are better than me, that kind of think (around 20 I realized this issue through Buddhist meditation techniques and now am 37)
The issue is still what is the difference. Some dude says now I rule and you shut up. How to tell if it is proper monarchy or yet another dictator?