Our civilization contains an absence of a nigh-universal trait that has historically proven itself to be compatible with civilization (and perhaps even beneficial to civilization; certainly the Roman emperors thought it was); that’s at least a sign that something else is going on. There are obvious historical reasons for this that don’t involve any abstract, instrumental-rationality-seeking processes: the quest to create a totalizing Christianity purified of any ‘pagan’ influences. (How many of our current rites are German or Irish in origin? Christmas is mostly German—trees, stockings, etc. -- and… hm, apparently jack-o’-lanterns may actually be English.)
The Pledge of Allegiance was a Progressive Era reform; I wonder if this was part of a general program to try to introduce a civil religion similar to Roman emperor-worship. Mount Rushmore was carved at around this same time, and its main supporter was Peter Norbeck, a Progressive. (And what of the folk musicians?) But I don’t think there’s very much to work with there; the Roman emperor-cult failed in the end.
Anyway… I don’t want to phrase it in the Alain de Botton-style language of pure instrumental rationality; while perhaps the best way to communicate the general points (especially around here), it’s likely to backfire. Doing something for the conscious purpose of acquiring whatever instrumental gains are believed to follow from it may undermine the instrumental value of the thing. So perhaps it will be impossible for me to change anyone’s mind on this without employing the Mencius-style strategy of reasoning by bringing up shared intuitions/experiences, and that requires a degree of targeting that is difficult to pull off on the internet.
But consider subcultures: why do people join them? What is it about raves, or Dan Deacon’s concerts (I’ve never been to one, but I’ve heard about them, and read about what he’s trying to do with them), or any of that—and what is it about subcultural identity itself? There may be some degree of psychological sortation going on (though even this would result in a closer approximation to the ancestral environment, where, due to a deeply shared context—there was an excellent SSC comment on cultural context a few days ago, but I can’t find it—and genetic similarity, most people would probably be more psychologically similar to most people they encounter than is the case today), but it’s also about having a sense of identity, which very few things but subcultures and frats can provide.
Frats are an even better example. Most people who join a frat identify strongly with it and see it as a beneficial thing in their lives. Why? (Note that this is despite the hazing process—i.e. the initiation ritual—that the consensus frowns upon today. But initiation rituals are cross-culturally common, no?)
See here.
Our civilization contains an absence of a nigh-universal trait that has historically proven itself to be compatible with civilization (and perhaps even beneficial to civilization; certainly the Roman emperors thought it was); that’s at least a sign that something else is going on. There are obvious historical reasons for this that don’t involve any abstract, instrumental-rationality-seeking processes: the quest to create a totalizing Christianity purified of any ‘pagan’ influences. (How many of our current rites are German or Irish in origin? Christmas is mostly German—trees, stockings, etc. -- and… hm, apparently jack-o’-lanterns may actually be English.)
The Pledge of Allegiance was a Progressive Era reform; I wonder if this was part of a general program to try to introduce a civil religion similar to Roman emperor-worship. Mount Rushmore was carved at around this same time, and its main supporter was Peter Norbeck, a Progressive. (And what of the folk musicians?) But I don’t think there’s very much to work with there; the Roman emperor-cult failed in the end.
Anyway… I don’t want to phrase it in the Alain de Botton-style language of pure instrumental rationality; while perhaps the best way to communicate the general points (especially around here), it’s likely to backfire. Doing something for the conscious purpose of acquiring whatever instrumental gains are believed to follow from it may undermine the instrumental value of the thing. So perhaps it will be impossible for me to change anyone’s mind on this without employing the Mencius-style strategy of reasoning by bringing up shared intuitions/experiences, and that requires a degree of targeting that is difficult to pull off on the internet.
But consider subcultures: why do people join them? What is it about raves, or Dan Deacon’s concerts (I’ve never been to one, but I’ve heard about them, and read about what he’s trying to do with them), or any of that—and what is it about subcultural identity itself? There may be some degree of psychological sortation going on (though even this would result in a closer approximation to the ancestral environment, where, due to a deeply shared context—there was an excellent SSC comment on cultural context a few days ago, but I can’t find it—and genetic similarity, most people would probably be more psychologically similar to most people they encounter than is the case today), but it’s also about having a sense of identity, which very few things but subcultures and frats can provide.
Frats are an even better example. Most people who join a frat identify strongly with it and see it as a beneficial thing in their lives. Why? (Note that this is despite the hazing process—i.e. the initiation ritual—that the consensus frowns upon today. But initiation rituals are cross-culturally common, no?)