2) Gays aren’t monogamous. One obvious way to see this is to note how much gay culture is based around gay bathhouses. Another way is to image search pictures of gay pride parades.
This user seems to to spreading an agenda of ignorant bigotry against homosexuality and polyamory. It doesn’t even temper the hostile stereotyping with much pretense of just referring to trends in the evidence.
Are the upvotes this account is receiving here done by actual lesswrong users (who, frankly, ought to be ashamed of themselves) or has Azathoth123 created sockpuppets to vote itself up?
Are the upvotes this account is receiving here done by actual lesswrong users (who, frankly, ought to be ashamed of themselves) or has Azathoth123 created sockpuppets to vote itself up?
I’ve suspected Azathoth123 of upvoting their own comments with sockpuppets since having this argument with them. (If I remember rightly, their comments’ scores would sit between −1 & +1 for a while, then abruptly jump up by 2-3 points at about the same time my comments got downvoted.)
Moreover, Azathoth123 is probably Eugine_Nier’s reincarnation. They’re similar in quite a few ways (political views, spelling errors, mannerisms) and Azathoth123 started posting prolifically roughly when Eugine_Nier got banned.
Well, firstly I’d like to say that I certainly don’t think we should ban homophobia (unless we ban all politics), and I also think that some of the things Azathoth123 says are intelligent and worthy of upvoting.
Having said that,
I’ve been downvoted for saying stupid things (by LW standards) and this is ok. But arguing with Azathoth123 is the only time I think I’ve been downvoted for saying things just because someone disagrees with the politics. Yesterday I posted two replies to him, neither was antagonistic or problematic in any way I can see, but still both have been downvoted. I have noticed this repeatedly.
What’s more, this isn’t going to help him spread his politics. People will stop being willing to talk to him (I’ve certainly grown tired of it), and it also reflects badly on other NRxers.
Futhermore, given that the large majority of LWers are socially liberal, I find it surprising that some of Azathoth123′s comments get so many upvotes. It doesn’t fit my model of the average LWer, even when filtered to assume that more consevatives are talking to him. I’d say maybe 70% confidence that he’s using sockpuppets based on that, rising based on what you and others have said.
Futhermore, given that the large majority of LWers are socially liberal, I find it surprising that some of Azathoth123′s comments get so many upvotes. It doesn’t fit my model of the average LWer, even when filtered to assume that more consevatives are talking to him.
In itself, heavy upvoting of Azathoth123′s comments doesn’t make me suspicious. Eugine_Nier often got lots of upvotes, and I don’t recall suspecting them of self-upvoting when they were posting under that name. (Though I have now started to wonder.) Other neoreactionary-leaning commenters like Konkvistador, Vladimir_M, Athrelon, and GlaDOS have solidly upvoted comments as well, and I’ve no reason to believe any of them have ever self-upvoted.
Other neoreactionary-leaning commenters like Konkvistador, Vladimir_M, Athrelon, and GlaDOS have solidly upvoted comments as well
I don’t think you can easily lump all of NRx under one banner. Criticism of democracy is fairly accepted on LW, and HBD (as an ‘is’ statement, not as a justification for discrimination) is seen as plausible. OTOH I don’t think there is much support for homo/transphobia here, and its certain comments on this subject which seemed to get an unreasonably large number of upvotes.
actual lesswrong users (who, frankly, ought to be ashamed of themselves)
Hi. I’m a kneejerk moderate who has found Aza’s comments a rare view into a world I do not know. I vote him/her up often, since I am benefited by this knowledge. I do not vote people up because I agree with them or, in this case, vice versa. I believe s/he is an asset to the site.
Care to explain exactly why I should be ashamed of myself?
I assign a very high probability (>90%) to Azathoth123 being Eugine_Nier. Given the latter’s history, I wouldn’t be surprised if Azathoth were involved in voting shenanigans. But I think it would be better if you take this to a mod (Viliam_Bur, I believe) for confirmation/action, rather than speculating in public.
ETA: Just realized that this comment is doing exactly what it was advising against. Slightly embarrassed that I didn’t notice while I was writing it.
I consider social policy proposal harmful and reject it as applied to myself or others. You may of course continue to refrain from speaking out against this kind of behaviour if you wish.
In the unlikely event that the net positive votes (at that time) given to Azathoth123 reflect the actual attitudes of the lesswrong community the ‘public’ should be made aware so they can choose whether to continue to associate with the site. At least one prominent user has recently disaffiliated himself (and deleted his account) for a far less harmful social political concern. On the other hand other people who embrace alternate lifestyles may be relieved to see that Azathoth’s prejudiced rabble rousing is unambiguously rejected here.
In the unlikely event that the net positive votes (at that time) given to Azathoth123 reflect the actual attitudes of the lesswrong community the ‘public’ should be made aware so they can choose whether to continue to associate with the site.
Yes, but wouldn’t this be more effective if you first confirmed/disconfirmed your hypothesis about the votes through a mod? In the absence of that information, how is a member of the public to know how to act? My objection was more about the speculative nature of the comment rather than the fact that you’re “speaking out”. I have nothing against speculation per se, but in cases where it can be fairly easily verified I prefer to see that happen instead.
This user seems to to spreading an agenda of ignorant bigotry against homosexuality and polyamory.
Do you have a counterargument to go with your insults. Also, while you’re on the subject could you define what you mean by “bigotry” and why it’s a bad thing. In my experience these days it usually means “he’s using a Bayesian prior based on a category I don’t like”.
Or is this simply the kind of comment you now need to occasionally make to keep the Australian thought police of your case? If so, I’d like you to know that I sympathize with your position and hope Australia desides to re-embrace free speech.
This user seems to to spreading an agenda of ignorant bigotry against homosexuality and polyamory. It doesn’t even temper the hostile stereotyping with much pretense of just referring to trends in the evidence.
Are the upvotes this account is receiving here done by actual lesswrong users (who, frankly, ought to be ashamed of themselves) or has Azathoth123 created sockpuppets to vote itself up?
I’ve suspected Azathoth123 of upvoting their own comments with sockpuppets since having this argument with them. (If I remember rightly, their comments’ scores would sit between −1 & +1 for a while, then abruptly jump up by 2-3 points at about the same time my comments got downvoted.)
Moreover, Azathoth123 is probably Eugine_Nier’s reincarnation. They’re similar in quite a few ways (political views, spelling errors, mannerisms) and Azathoth123 started posting prolifically roughly when Eugine_Nier got banned.
Well, firstly I’d like to say that I certainly don’t think we should ban homophobia (unless we ban all politics), and I also think that some of the things Azathoth123 says are intelligent and worthy of upvoting.
Having said that,
I’ve been downvoted for saying stupid things (by LW standards) and this is ok. But arguing with Azathoth123 is the only time I think I’ve been downvoted for saying things just because someone disagrees with the politics. Yesterday I posted two replies to him, neither was antagonistic or problematic in any way I can see, but still both have been downvoted. I have noticed this repeatedly.
What’s more, this isn’t going to help him spread his politics. People will stop being willing to talk to him (I’ve certainly grown tired of it), and it also reflects badly on other NRxers.
Futhermore, given that the large majority of LWers are socially liberal, I find it surprising that some of Azathoth123′s comments get so many upvotes. It doesn’t fit my model of the average LWer, even when filtered to assume that more consevatives are talking to him. I’d say maybe 70% confidence that he’s using sockpuppets based on that, rising based on what you and others have said.
In itself, heavy upvoting of Azathoth123′s comments doesn’t make me suspicious. Eugine_Nier often got lots of upvotes, and I don’t recall suspecting them of self-upvoting when they were posting under that name. (Though I have now started to wonder.) Other neoreactionary-leaning commenters like Konkvistador, Vladimir_M, Athrelon, and GlaDOS have solidly upvoted comments as well, and I’ve no reason to believe any of them have ever self-upvoted.
(Your other observations mostly align with mine.)
I don’t think you can easily lump all of NRx under one banner. Criticism of democracy is fairly accepted on LW, and HBD (as an ‘is’ statement, not as a justification for discrimination) is seen as plausible. OTOH I don’t think there is much support for homo/transphobia here, and its certain comments on this subject which seemed to get an unreasonably large number of upvotes.
Hi. I’m a kneejerk moderate who has found Aza’s comments a rare view into a world I do not know. I vote him/her up often, since I am benefited by this knowledge. I do not vote people up because I agree with them or, in this case, vice versa. I believe s/he is an asset to the site.
Care to explain exactly why I should be ashamed of myself?
I assign a very high probability (>90%) to Azathoth123 being Eugine_Nier. Given the latter’s history, I wouldn’t be surprised if Azathoth were involved in voting shenanigans. But I think it would be better if you take this to a mod (Viliam_Bur, I believe) for confirmation/action, rather than speculating in public.
ETA: Just realized that this comment is doing exactly what it was advising against. Slightly embarrassed that I didn’t notice while I was writing it.
I consider social policy proposal harmful and reject it as applied to myself or others. You may of course continue to refrain from speaking out against this kind of behaviour if you wish.
In the unlikely event that the net positive votes (at that time) given to Azathoth123 reflect the actual attitudes of the lesswrong community the ‘public’ should be made aware so they can choose whether to continue to associate with the site. At least one prominent user has recently disaffiliated himself (and deleted his account) for a far less harmful social political concern. On the other hand other people who embrace alternate lifestyles may be relieved to see that Azathoth’s prejudiced rabble rousing is unambiguously rejected here.
Yes, but wouldn’t this be more effective if you first confirmed/disconfirmed your hypothesis about the votes through a mod? In the absence of that information, how is a member of the public to know how to act? My objection was more about the speculative nature of the comment rather than the fact that you’re “speaking out”. I have nothing against speculation per se, but in cases where it can be fairly easily verified I prefer to see that happen instead.
Do you have a counterargument to go with your insults. Also, while you’re on the subject could you define what you mean by “bigotry” and why it’s a bad thing. In my experience these days it usually means “he’s using a Bayesian prior based on a category I don’t like”.
Or is this simply the kind of comment you now need to occasionally make to keep the Australian thought police of your case? If so, I’d like you to know that I sympathize with your position and hope Australia desides to re-embrace free speech.