My problem, and likely the chatters’, is that by leading a team cheer for one audience, the larger neutral audience feels excluded. Doesn’t really matter whose words it was.
And while most of the history was very interesting, some of it felt cherry-picked or spun, adding to that feeling of team-ization.
I don’t think “neutral” is quite the right word for the audience in question. It may be the best one, but there is more to it, as it only captures the group’s view of itself, and not how others might see it.
The Bayesians (vegetarians) see the “neutrals” (omnivores) as non-understanding (animal-killers). The neutrals see themselves as partaking of the best tools (foods) there are, both Bayesian and frequentist (vegetable and animal), and think that when Bayesians call them “non-Bayesians” (animal-killers) the Bayesians are making a mistake of fact by thinking that they are frequentists (carnivores). Sometimes Bayesians even say “frequentist” when context makes it obvious they mean “non-Bayesian” (or that they are making a silly mistake, which is what the threatened “neutrals” are motivated to assume).
As neutrals is absolutely how those in the group in question see themselves, but also true is that Bayesians see them as heretics, (murderers of Bambi, Thumper, and Lambchop), or what have you, without them making a mistake of fact. The Bayesian theoretical criticisms should not be brushed aside on the grounds that they are out of touch with how things are done, and do not understand that it that most use all available tools (are omnivorous). They can be addressed by invoking the outside view against the inside view, or practice against theory, etc. (these are arguments in which Bayesians and frequentists are joined against neutrals) and subsequently (if the “neutrals” (omnivores) do not win against the Bayesians [and their frequentist allies {those favoring pure diets}] outright in that round) on the well worn Bayesian (vegetarian) v. frequentist (carnivore) battlegrounds.
This is quite possible, but there is some irony here—you have misrepresented the analogy by describing a three category grouping system by naming two of its categories, implying it is about opposites!
I think that people do this too often in general and that it is implicated in this debate’s confused character. Hence, the analogy with more than a dichotomy of oppositional groups!
Having said that, I find myself agreeing with kurokikaze; the vegetarian-omnivore-carnivore metaphor doesn’t help. The spilt blood (and spilt sap) distract from, and obscure, the “Three, not two” point.
My problem, and likely the chatters’, is that by leading a team cheer for one audience, the larger neutral audience feels excluded. Doesn’t really matter whose words it was.
And while most of the history was very interesting, some of it felt cherry-picked or spun, adding to that feeling of team-ization.
I don’t think “neutral” is quite the right word for the audience in question. It may be the best one, but there is more to it, as it only captures the group’s view of itself, and not how others might see it.
The Bayesians (vegetarians) see the “neutrals” (omnivores) as non-understanding (animal-killers). The neutrals see themselves as partaking of the best tools (foods) there are, both Bayesian and frequentist (vegetable and animal), and think that when Bayesians call them “non-Bayesians” (animal-killers) the Bayesians are making a mistake of fact by thinking that they are frequentists (carnivores). Sometimes Bayesians even say “frequentist” when context makes it obvious they mean “non-Bayesian” (or that they are making a silly mistake, which is what the threatened “neutrals” are motivated to assume).
As neutrals is absolutely how those in the group in question see themselves, but also true is that Bayesians see them as heretics, (murderers of Bambi, Thumper, and Lambchop), or what have you, without them making a mistake of fact. The Bayesian theoretical criticisms should not be brushed aside on the grounds that they are out of touch with how things are done, and do not understand that it that most use all available tools (are omnivorous). They can be addressed by invoking the outside view against the inside view, or practice against theory, etc. (these are arguments in which Bayesians and frequentists are joined against neutrals) and subsequently (if the “neutrals” (omnivores) do not win against the Bayesians [and their frequentist allies {those favoring pure diets}] outright in that round) on the well worn Bayesian (vegetarian) v. frequentist (carnivore) battlegrounds.
I think vegetarian-carnivore metaphor here doesn’t help at all :)
I found it helpful. But I’m an omnivore so I (mistakenly) think that I don’t have a dog in that fight.
This is quite possible, but there is some irony here—you have misrepresented the analogy by describing a three category grouping system by naming two of its categories, implying it is about opposites!
I think that people do this too often in general and that it is implicated in this debate’s confused character. Hence, the analogy with more than a dichotomy of oppositional groups!
Realising that it is a three-way split, not a two-way split is my latest hammer. See me use it in Is Bayesian probability individual, situational, or transcendental: a break with the usual subjective/objective bun fight.
Having said that, I find myself agreeing with kurokikaze; the vegetarian-omnivore-carnivore metaphor doesn’t help. The spilt blood (and spilt sap) distract from, and obscure, the “Three, not two” point.