I see. I think when there’s socially oriented fairly ambiguous outcomes it could be much easier for a player group to get lost in a false social reality and miss a lot of the hard lessons of the game. That’s probably true. I think the skill of collectively maintaining contact with base reality under the influence of politics is so obviously important that acknowledging the difficulty of it only makes me more eager to develop these sorts of games. I think Peacewagers absolutely shouldn’t make single-winner outcomes impossible, so I think this effect will often be moderated when wily spot ways of completely stealing themselves a hegemony from under the noses of a hyper-narratized community. Situations where public beliefs will tend to point in one direction, away from noticing that there is this unilateralist monopolization threat laying around, that the most knavish character is very likely to pick up on, seize, and humble everyone with. Ah, I actually think the misaligned AI character, Miracle Machine, would do this. Everyone finds MM useful, no one wants to extinct them. When they’re small, it’s easy to pretend it’s not going to escape containment, but groups who follow individual incentives, overuse MM, lie about it, conspire in their lies to deny the tail risk, will always be humbled in the end :} however many times it takes to learn the lesson.
Hmm. I expect that if peacewagers tend to break under advanced play, players in this mindset will make a version of the game for advanced players and stop playing the variant that they broke. It’s common for a game to have enough depth that advanced players wont want to move on after domming it, they’ll linger, to show off, but if we follow this mindset (growth over all), somehow, we will strive to learn when to move on. I think growthists will tend to be more proactive about exploring the space of possible games. The way to design games for them may be less about finding the fun and more about providing tools for the community to find it and chart it themselves. (tools like level editors, wikis, recommender systems)
I see. I think when there’s socially oriented fairly ambiguous outcomes it could be much easier for a player group to get lost in a false social reality and miss a lot of the hard lessons of the game. That’s probably true.
I think the skill of collectively maintaining contact with base reality under the influence of politics is so obviously important that acknowledging the difficulty of it only makes me more eager to develop these sorts of games.
I think Peacewagers absolutely shouldn’t make single-winner outcomes impossible, so I think this effect will often be moderated when wily spot ways of completely stealing themselves a hegemony from under the noses of a hyper-narratized community. Situations where public beliefs will tend to point in one direction, away from noticing that there is this unilateralist monopolization threat laying around, that the most knavish character is very likely to pick up on, seize, and humble everyone with. Ah, I actually think the misaligned AI character, Miracle Machine, would do this. Everyone finds MM useful, no one wants to extinct them. When they’re small, it’s easy to pretend it’s not going to escape containment, but groups who follow individual incentives, overuse MM, lie about it, conspire in their lies to deny the tail risk, will always be humbled in the end :} however many times it takes to learn the lesson.
Hmm. I expect that if peacewagers tend to break under advanced play, players in this mindset will make a version of the game for advanced players and stop playing the variant that they broke. It’s common for a game to have enough depth that advanced players wont want to move on after domming it, they’ll linger, to show off, but if we follow this mindset (growth over all), somehow, we will strive to learn when to move on.
I think growthists will tend to be more proactive about exploring the space of possible games. The way to design games for them may be less about finding the fun and more about providing tools for the community to find it and chart it themselves. (tools like level editors, wikis, recommender systems)