I think the creepiness generalizes, and is pervasive, but I recognize I’m in the minority on this in the world.
“I’m not coercing you, I’m just helping you correct for your _”
The majority of people find this kind of thinking perfectly acceptable. I find such comments creepy and reprehensible, and it’s extremely chilling to know that I’m in the minority on this.
I don’t know if you are minority on that. Depending what you mean I guess. If it looks like coercion without the part about helping you overcome akrasia (as this bieber example does), then that’s no good.
What do you think about, say, teaching people rationality skills without them asking for it?
In general, what is a borderline acceptable example for “I’m not coercing you, I’m just...”?
What do you think about, say, teaching people rationality skills without them asking for it?
Depends on how you did it. Did you strap them to a chair, tape their eyelids open, force them to watch instructional videos?
Or did you write a story that people want to read, let’s say about Harry Potter, that includes lessons on rationality?
In general, what is a borderline acceptable example for “I’m not coercing you, I’m just [helping you correct for your]...”?
People coerce people all the time. I don’t think it is avoidable, but let’s not go into the whole anarchist/libertarian thing.
The ominous part is the equation that coercion isn’t coercion when it is for your own good. It’s ok to take people’s freedom from them, as long as you’re only taking away their freedom to make a mistake, and forcing them to do what’s good for them. That’s just writing yourself a blank check to run (and destroy) other people’s lives.
Borderline cases? For the self delusion that coercion isn’t coercion? I can’t think of any.
I can think of numerous cases where I would coerce someone for their own good, such as yanking someone out of the path of a speeding bus.
For competent adults, I would rarely condone coercing someone against their own well considered values. There would have to be a rather huge benefit to outweigh so violating a person’s autonomy. I’ll go along with licensing requirements for brain surgeons. I’m probably borderline for a licensing requirement for setting broken bones and putting on casts.
Where you actually are in the position of being a guardian of someone with limited or diminished capacity, like a child or a parent with advanced Alzheimer’s, you come across the issue much more. You’ll make some decisions for them. I’d still encourage leaving some slack for both to make their own bad choices, because having your autonomy taken from you has it’s costs as well.
Depends on how you did it. Did you strap them to a chair, tape their eyelids open, force them to watch instructional videos?
Ha yeah. clockwork orange isn’t exactly ethical eutopia.
Borderline cases? For the self delusion that coercion isn’t coercion? I can’t think of any.
I was just trying to get a sense of the extent of your belief. There are things you say are OK like pulling a person out of the path of a bus, and things you say are not, like running someone’s life, but what is a case that is ambiguous to you? Stealing a drunk friend’s keys and possibly confining them to keep them from driving drunk? Making drugs or whatever illegal (assuming you’re actually doing so for anyone’s good, and not for police bureaucracy or drug cartels). Banning guns? Forcing everybody to take introductory rationality/philosophy of science classes in high school?
I think the creepiness generalizes, and is pervasive, but I recognize I’m in the minority on this in the world.
“I’m not coercing you, I’m just helping you correct for your _”
The majority of people find this kind of thinking perfectly acceptable. I find such comments creepy and reprehensible, and it’s extremely chilling to know that I’m in the minority on this.
I don’t know if you are minority on that. Depending what you mean I guess. If it looks like coercion without the part about helping you overcome akrasia (as this bieber example does), then that’s no good.
What do you think about, say, teaching people rationality skills without them asking for it?
In general, what is a borderline acceptable example for “I’m not coercing you, I’m just...”?
Depends on how you did it. Did you strap them to a chair, tape their eyelids open, force them to watch instructional videos?
Or did you write a story that people want to read, let’s say about Harry Potter, that includes lessons on rationality?
People coerce people all the time. I don’t think it is avoidable, but let’s not go into the whole anarchist/libertarian thing.
The ominous part is the equation that coercion isn’t coercion when it is for your own good. It’s ok to take people’s freedom from them, as long as you’re only taking away their freedom to make a mistake, and forcing them to do what’s good for them. That’s just writing yourself a blank check to run (and destroy) other people’s lives.
Borderline cases? For the self delusion that coercion isn’t coercion? I can’t think of any.
I can think of numerous cases where I would coerce someone for their own good, such as yanking someone out of the path of a speeding bus.
For competent adults, I would rarely condone coercing someone against their own well considered values. There would have to be a rather huge benefit to outweigh so violating a person’s autonomy. I’ll go along with licensing requirements for brain surgeons. I’m probably borderline for a licensing requirement for setting broken bones and putting on casts.
Where you actually are in the position of being a guardian of someone with limited or diminished capacity, like a child or a parent with advanced Alzheimer’s, you come across the issue much more. You’ll make some decisions for them. I’d still encourage leaving some slack for both to make their own bad choices, because having your autonomy taken from you has it’s costs as well.
Ha yeah. clockwork orange isn’t exactly ethical eutopia.
I was just trying to get a sense of the extent of your belief. There are things you say are OK like pulling a person out of the path of a bus, and things you say are not, like running someone’s life, but what is a case that is ambiguous to you? Stealing a drunk friend’s keys and possibly confining them to keep them from driving drunk? Making drugs or whatever illegal (assuming you’re actually doing so for anyone’s good, and not for police bureaucracy or drug cartels). Banning guns? Forcing everybody to take introductory rationality/philosophy of science classes in high school?