The evidence for chiropractic intervention for lower back pain is good enough that RationalWiki which is full of people who don’t like chiropractics write: “There is evidence that chiropractic can help alleviate symptoms of low back pain.”
RationalWiki then adds that the cost and risks still suggest to that it’s good to stay aware from chiropractors.
Conventional wisdom by people who care about evidence for medical treatment is these days is that chiropractical interventions have effects for alleviate symptoms of low back pain.
That makes it a good test to identify people who pretend to care about evidence-based medicine but who care about medicine being motivated by orthodox theory instead of empirical evidence.
people who don’t like chiropractics write: “There is evidence
Of course they’ll write that. After all, there is evidence. You were implying that there’s good evidence.
RationalWiki then adds that the cost and risks still suggest to that it’s good to stay aware from chiropractors.
In other words, the evidence isn’t all that good.
Conventional wisdom by people who care about evidence for medical treatment is these days is that chiropractical interventions have effects for alleviate symptoms of low back pain.
This is a no true Scotsman fallacy. You’re asserting that anyone who seems to be part of conventional wisdom but doesn’t agree doesn’t count because he doesn’t care about evidence.
No. Saying that costs and side effects aren’t worth something is very different than saying it doesn’t work and produces no effect.
Conventional treatment is often cheaper than chiropractics. Dismissing it on those grounds is very different than dismissing it on grounds that it produces no effect.
Given that they don’t like it they need to make some argument against it ;) Not being able to argue that it doesn’t work make them go for risks and cost effectiveness.
This is a no true Scotsman fallacy. You’re asserting that anyone who seems to be part of conventional wisdom but doesn’t agree doesn’t count because he doesn’t care about evidence.
Cochrane meta studies have a reputation that’s good enough that even venues like RationalWiki accept it when it comes to conclusions that they don’t like.
There no meta study that’s published after the Cochrane results that argues that the Cochrane analysis get’s things wrong. Conventional of evidence-based medicine than suggests to use the Cochrane results as best source of evidence.
It not only RationalWiki. Any good evidence-based source that has a writeup about chiropractics will these days tell you that the evidence suggests that it works for back pain for a value of works that means it works as well as other conventional treatments for back pain.
Saying that costs and side effects aren’t worth something is very different than saying it doesn’t work and produces no effect.
No, they’re not very different at all. In fact they are directly related. Saying that costs and side effects are too great means that costs and side effects are too great for the benefit you get. If there is some probability that the study is bad and there is no benefit, that gets factored into this comparison; the greater the probability that the study is bad, the more the costs and side effects tip the balance against getting the treatment.
Cochrane meta studies have a reputation that’s good enough that even venues like RationalWiki accept it when it comes to conclusions that they don’t like.
You didn’t say that everyone accepts it. You said that everyone who cares about evidence accepts it. This is equivalent to “the people who don’t accept it don’t count because their opinions are not really based on evidence”. Likewise, now you’re claiming “any good evidence-based source” will say that it works. Again, this is a No True Scotsman fallacy; you’re saying that anyone who disagrees can’t really be an evidence-based source.
It’s only a No True Scotsman if you can point to an actual citizen of Scotland who doesn’t meet the ‘true Scotsman’ standard.
You are conflating two claims here. One is that chiropractic is more expensive than conventional treatments for lower back pain, and the other is that chiropractic is less effective than conventional treatments for lower back pain. What support do you have for the latter claim?
Saying that costs and side effects are too great means that costs and side effects are too great for the benefit you get. If there is some probability that the study is bad and there is no benefit, that gets factored into this comparison; the greater the probability that the study is bad, the more the costs and side effects tip the balance against getting the treatment.
If there was some non-negligible probability that the study was bad, RationalWiki would, given their dislike for chiropractics, have seized upon that and discussed it explicitly, would they not?
They describe the Cochrane study as “weak evidence” that chiropractic is as effective as other therapy. This implicitly includes some non-negligible probability that the benefit is less than the study seems to say it is.
The evidence for chiropractic intervention for lower back pain is good enough that RationalWiki which is full of people who don’t like chiropractics write: “There is evidence that chiropractic can help alleviate symptoms of low back pain.” RationalWiki then adds that the cost and risks still suggest to that it’s good to stay aware from chiropractors.
Conventional wisdom by people who care about evidence for medical treatment is these days is that chiropractical interventions have effects for alleviate symptoms of low back pain.
That makes it a good test to identify people who pretend to care about evidence-based medicine but who care about medicine being motivated by orthodox theory instead of empirical evidence.
Of course they’ll write that. After all, there is evidence. You were implying that there’s good evidence.
In other words, the evidence isn’t all that good.
This is a no true Scotsman fallacy. You’re asserting that anyone who seems to be part of conventional wisdom but doesn’t agree doesn’t count because he doesn’t care about evidence.
No. Saying that costs and side effects aren’t worth something is very different than saying it doesn’t work and produces no effect.
Conventional treatment is often cheaper than chiropractics. Dismissing it on those grounds is very different than dismissing it on grounds that it produces no effect. Given that they don’t like it they need to make some argument against it ;) Not being able to argue that it doesn’t work make them go for risks and cost effectiveness.
Cochrane meta studies have a reputation that’s good enough that even venues like RationalWiki accept it when it comes to conclusions that they don’t like.
There no meta study that’s published after the Cochrane results that argues that the Cochrane analysis get’s things wrong. Conventional of evidence-based medicine than suggests to use the Cochrane results as best source of evidence. It not only RationalWiki. Any good evidence-based source that has a writeup about chiropractics will these days tell you that the evidence suggests that it works for back pain for a value of works that means it works as well as other conventional treatments for back pain.
No, they’re not very different at all. In fact they are directly related. Saying that costs and side effects are too great means that costs and side effects are too great for the benefit you get. If there is some probability that the study is bad and there is no benefit, that gets factored into this comparison; the greater the probability that the study is bad, the more the costs and side effects tip the balance against getting the treatment.
You didn’t say that everyone accepts it. You said that everyone who cares about evidence accepts it. This is equivalent to “the people who don’t accept it don’t count because their opinions are not really based on evidence”. Likewise, now you’re claiming “any good evidence-based source” will say that it works. Again, this is a No True Scotsman fallacy; you’re saying that anyone who disagrees can’t really be an evidence-based source.
It’s only a No True Scotsman if you can point to an actual citizen of Scotland who doesn’t meet the ‘true Scotsman’ standard.
You are conflating two claims here. One is that chiropractic is more expensive than conventional treatments for lower back pain, and the other is that chiropractic is less effective than conventional treatments for lower back pain. What support do you have for the latter claim?
I covered that:
If there was some non-negligible probability that the study was bad, RationalWiki would, given their dislike for chiropractics, have seized upon that and discussed it explicitly, would they not?
They describe the Cochrane study as “weak evidence” that chiropractic is as effective as other therapy. This implicitly includes some non-negligible probability that the benefit is less than the study seems to say it is.