Thanks for the references. I should have made clear that I meant, not that there are no peer-reviewed studies about meditation, but there are none that I know of that concern enlightenment, the typical stages of meditative experience leading up to it, cognitive / neurophysiological sequelae, etc. (which are what I would find interesting in this context).
Ahh, good point. My comment is somewhat irrelevant then with regards to this, as it seems that what you’re interested in is beyond the scope of science at present.
My gold standard for understanding reality is science, i.e., the process of collecting data, building models, making predictions, and testing those predictions again and again and again. In the spirit of “making beliefs pay rent” if Buddist meditation leads to less distorted views of reality then I would expect that “enlightened” Buddists would make especially successful scientists. As a religious group the Jews have been far more productive than the Buddists. Apparently Buddist physicists have no special advantage at building models that “carve reality at the joints”. The Buddist monk may experience the illusion of knowing reality but actually understand less than a physicist. Or perhaps Buddist meditation trains the mind to “not care” or “not trust perceptions” to a degree that interferes with science? In what fields have Buddist monks excelled?
I am following with interest recent studies on brain changes due to mindfulness meditation, specifically improvements in executive function that accompany the enlargement of white matter tracts connecting the prefrontal cortex to the amygdala. So far I interpret the results as brain circuits being strengthened by attentional focus training so that the prefrontal cortex can inhibit signals arising in the amygdala, insula, thalamus, and hypothalamus. For those lacking such control this may be beneficial, i.e., those with low impulse control, for example children. There may be a motivational downside for those who already habitually inhibit such drives, e.g., those who easily become lost in abstract thought.
“In what fields have Buddhist monks excelled?” Martial arts? Some other arts. Propagating a religion. Overcoming what seem to many people to be overwhelming motivations, such as the motivation to eat or to avoid extreme amounts of pain, convincing people that they are wise, maybe some memory and rapid cognition feats.
If you count Stoics as Buddhists, as I would, governing Rome & providing that part of the content of Christianity for lack of which the ancient world seems most alien.
So far I interpret the results as brain circuits being strengthened by attentional focus training so that the prefrontal cortex can inhibit signals arising in the amygdala, insula, thalamus, and hypothalamus.
Might I suggest that as well as the inhibition you actually benefit from the cortex having more access to the information and processing that the aforementioned regions provide? Because generalised inhibition in itself isn’t all that difficult, mindfulness aside. It is nuanced, well considered inhibition that takes work. It is also what lasts in the long term—because simply inhibiting the signals from those centres doesn’t help eliminate the cause.
Do you have statistics or studies concerning the claim that Buddhist physicists are not advantaged in science? How would you even begin to rationally approach the issue? It seems complicated—you’d have to adjust for education levels, the possibility that meditators are inclined to pursue subjects other than physics, the fact that meditation takes up time that could otherwise be devoted to studying physics, different cultural backgrounds of meditations vs. controls...
Intuitively, I think your claim is likely to be true, but I can’t really see how you can rigorously support it. Data on the % of Buddhist physicists, if it even exists, would only be scratching the surface of what you would need to support your claim. (Not that I want to debate the claim. But if you feel it’s important, I want a non-handwavey argument.)
A better model for enlightenment, meditation and rationality, I’d say, is that these things give you tools that allow you to be more rational if you’re so inclined. As with everything in life, it’s your own goals and inclinations that determine what you do with them.
An analogy is drinking coffee. Paraphrasing Paul Erdos, a mathematician is one who turns coffee into theorems. Do coffee drinkers have a special advantage in mathematics? Probably not. So perhaps Erdos was wrong; perhaps having to empty one’s bladder more often actually interferes with being a good mathematician? Again, probably not. Most likely, drinking coffee leads to mathematical productivity for people who are interested in increasing mathematical productivity.
Unfortunately, as far as I know, it’s an issue that hasn’t been studied...but because of the detailed knowledge that has come out of communities interested in enlightenment, I see no principled reason why it couldn’t be studied.
Thanks for the references. I should have made clear that I meant, not that there are no peer-reviewed studies about meditation, but there are none that I know of that concern enlightenment, the typical stages of meditative experience leading up to it, cognitive / neurophysiological sequelae, etc. (which are what I would find interesting in this context).
If you know otherwise, I’d love to hear about it.
Ahh, good point. My comment is somewhat irrelevant then with regards to this, as it seems that what you’re interested in is beyond the scope of science at present.
My gold standard for understanding reality is science, i.e., the process of collecting data, building models, making predictions, and testing those predictions again and again and again. In the spirit of “making beliefs pay rent” if Buddist meditation leads to less distorted views of reality then I would expect that “enlightened” Buddists would make especially successful scientists. As a religious group the Jews have been far more productive than the Buddists. Apparently Buddist physicists have no special advantage at building models that “carve reality at the joints”. The Buddist monk may experience the illusion of knowing reality but actually understand less than a physicist. Or perhaps Buddist meditation trains the mind to “not care” or “not trust perceptions” to a degree that interferes with science? In what fields have Buddist monks excelled?
I am following with interest recent studies on brain changes due to mindfulness meditation, specifically improvements in executive function that accompany the enlargement of white matter tracts connecting the prefrontal cortex to the amygdala. So far I interpret the results as brain circuits being strengthened by attentional focus training so that the prefrontal cortex can inhibit signals arising in the amygdala, insula, thalamus, and hypothalamus. For those lacking such control this may be beneficial, i.e., those with low impulse control, for example children. There may be a motivational downside for those who already habitually inhibit such drives, e.g., those who easily become lost in abstract thought.
“In what fields have Buddhist monks excelled?”
Martial arts? Some other arts. Propagating a religion. Overcoming what seem to many people to be overwhelming motivations, such as the motivation to eat or to avoid extreme amounts of pain, convincing people that they are wise, maybe some memory and rapid cognition feats.
If you count Stoics as Buddhists, as I would, governing Rome & providing that part of the content of Christianity for lack of which the ancient world seems most alien.
Might I suggest that as well as the inhibition you actually benefit from the cortex having more access to the information and processing that the aforementioned regions provide? Because generalised inhibition in itself isn’t all that difficult, mindfulness aside. It is nuanced, well considered inhibition that takes work. It is also what lasts in the long term—because simply inhibiting the signals from those centres doesn’t help eliminate the cause.
Do you have statistics or studies concerning the claim that Buddhist physicists are not advantaged in science? How would you even begin to rationally approach the issue? It seems complicated—you’d have to adjust for education levels, the possibility that meditators are inclined to pursue subjects other than physics, the fact that meditation takes up time that could otherwise be devoted to studying physics, different cultural backgrounds of meditations vs. controls...
Intuitively, I think your claim is likely to be true, but I can’t really see how you can rigorously support it. Data on the % of Buddhist physicists, if it even exists, would only be scratching the surface of what you would need to support your claim. (Not that I want to debate the claim. But if you feel it’s important, I want a non-handwavey argument.)
A better model for enlightenment, meditation and rationality, I’d say, is that these things give you tools that allow you to be more rational if you’re so inclined. As with everything in life, it’s your own goals and inclinations that determine what you do with them.
An analogy is drinking coffee. Paraphrasing Paul Erdos, a mathematician is one who turns coffee into theorems. Do coffee drinkers have a special advantage in mathematics? Probably not. So perhaps Erdos was wrong; perhaps having to empty one’s bladder more often actually interferes with being a good mathematician? Again, probably not. Most likely, drinking coffee leads to mathematical productivity for people who are interested in increasing mathematical productivity.
Coffee drinkers may well have an advantage in mathematics
Attributed to both Alfréd Rényi and Paul Erdős
Heh, coffee (and caffeine in general) is such an ingrained part of the culture here.
*Buddhist
Unfortunately, as far as I know, it’s an issue that hasn’t been studied...but because of the detailed knowledge that has come out of communities interested in enlightenment, I see no principled reason why it couldn’t be studied.
Actually, I think it’s low-hanging fruit.