Define “sane”. The main problem is that unless the other person is themselves an experienced meditator (or maybe very good at rationality), they are pretty much useless and might easily make it worse.
By far, the most typical reactions to someone stuck in the Dark Night or going through a peak experience are alienation, attempting to engage their psychological waste[1] or treating it as a mental illness[2]. Neither helps, only more practice and calming down does.
Overall, I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but actual help requires either personal experience or sanity that would reasonably pass LW standards, and those aren’t all that common (or easy to identify when you’re stuck). I had enough negative experiences in that regard that I have a personal “shut up and practice” policy.
[1] Meaning, trying to engage the content when you should be engaging the thought pattern. It’s like the difference between psychoanalysis and CBT.
[2] I know several people who had an early peak experience, thought they were Jesus for a few days and who got institutionalized. They typically didn’t mind (Jesus doesn’t care about wards) and it never lasted long, but that’s the kind of response you get from most professionals when weird shit happens.
As someone who stopped early on because of a frightening experience I’d be interested in more discussion about risks. I’m also curious about the term ‘Dark Night.’
Also, I was told that it’s best to learn how to meditate in a group with a trained faciliator as this can greatly reduce the risk of bad reactions. This was true in my case. I only encountered problems when I went out on my own.
“Dark Night (of the Soul)” is a common term[1] used by people for the not-so-pleasant period between a peak experience and (re-)establishment of equanimity. To give a bit of an analogy, it’s like after you realize that an important core belief is bullshit, but before you have a comfortable world-view again. Symptomatically, it looks a lot like (sometimes manic) depression.
Technically it’s probably not a risk because it’s inevitable. Everyone passes through it (multiple times), although the extent of the suckiness varies a lot.
The important part here is to not abandon the practice and distance oneself from whatever bad feelings might come up. People easily get frightened or feel disgusted with their life and start making stupid decisions. (Been there, done that.) The best is just to relax and postpone any drastic change until the suckiness has passed.
I can’t say if groups are any help as I’m a complete autodidact. A supportive group and a calm, reassuring teacher might be beneficial, sure. But then, all advice boils down to “this is normal, don’t worry, keep on going” and it depends if you prefer someone else to tell you this or to do so yourself. ;)
Edit: However, finding a useful teacher or group for insight meditation is pretty hard. As DavidM mentioned, most people unfortunately don’t discuss or care about their attainments and most meditation practiced today is either focused on concentration or well-being. I’m not aware of any risks or side-effects associated with those (except for some people getting addicted to the feeling of bliss and becoming meditation junkies, but how negative this is depends on your attitude towards wire-heading).
[1] Specifically, I took it from Daniel Ingram as a name for the dukkha nanas, but many people seem to come up with the same or similar labels on a regular basis. Daniel’s book is highly recommended.
Erk. Yeah, I should have noted that I was using a non-standard definition there, and we seem to be on the same page regarding what one should actually look for in a ‘sane’ person. (My rule of thumb is that their response to such things should boil down to a compassionate spin on ‘so what?’.)
Define “sane”. The main problem is that unless the other person is themselves an experienced meditator (or maybe very good at rationality), they are pretty much useless and might easily make it worse.
By far, the most typical reactions to someone stuck in the Dark Night or going through a peak experience are alienation, attempting to engage their psychological waste[1] or treating it as a mental illness[2]. Neither helps, only more practice and calming down does.
Overall, I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but actual help requires either personal experience or sanity that would reasonably pass LW standards, and those aren’t all that common (or easy to identify when you’re stuck). I had enough negative experiences in that regard that I have a personal “shut up and practice” policy.
[1] Meaning, trying to engage the content when you should be engaging the thought pattern. It’s like the difference between psychoanalysis and CBT.
[2] I know several people who had an early peak experience, thought they were Jesus for a few days and who got institutionalized. They typically didn’t mind (Jesus doesn’t care about wards) and it never lasted long, but that’s the kind of response you get from most professionals when weird shit happens.
As someone who stopped early on because of a frightening experience I’d be interested in more discussion about risks. I’m also curious about the term ‘Dark Night.’
Also, I was told that it’s best to learn how to meditate in a group with a trained faciliator as this can greatly reduce the risk of bad reactions. This was true in my case. I only encountered problems when I went out on my own.
“Dark Night (of the Soul)” is a common term[1] used by people for the not-so-pleasant period between a peak experience and (re-)establishment of equanimity. To give a bit of an analogy, it’s like after you realize that an important core belief is bullshit, but before you have a comfortable world-view again. Symptomatically, it looks a lot like (sometimes manic) depression.
Technically it’s probably not a risk because it’s inevitable. Everyone passes through it (multiple times), although the extent of the suckiness varies a lot.
The important part here is to not abandon the practice and distance oneself from whatever bad feelings might come up. People easily get frightened or feel disgusted with their life and start making stupid decisions. (Been there, done that.) The best is just to relax and postpone any drastic change until the suckiness has passed.
I can’t say if groups are any help as I’m a complete autodidact. A supportive group and a calm, reassuring teacher might be beneficial, sure. But then, all advice boils down to “this is normal, don’t worry, keep on going” and it depends if you prefer someone else to tell you this or to do so yourself. ;)
Edit: However, finding a useful teacher or group for insight meditation is pretty hard. As DavidM mentioned, most people unfortunately don’t discuss or care about their attainments and most meditation practiced today is either focused on concentration or well-being. I’m not aware of any risks or side-effects associated with those (except for some people getting addicted to the feeling of bliss and becoming meditation junkies, but how negative this is depends on your attitude towards wire-heading).
[1] Specifically, I took it from Daniel Ingram as a name for the dukkha nanas, but many people seem to come up with the same or similar labels on a regular basis. Daniel’s book is highly recommended.
Erk. Yeah, I should have noted that I was using a non-standard definition there, and we seem to be on the same page regarding what one should actually look for in a ‘sane’ person. (My rule of thumb is that their response to such things should boil down to a compassionate spin on ‘so what?’.)