The problem I see with your request is not that you want something that meditation causes which is observable by a third party (there are lots of potential ideas in the comments), but you want something that meditation causes which is observable by a third party which your goal structure approves of. Which, in principle, is fine, but I can’t say I know what your goal structure is.
Hi David, thanks for taking the time to answer at such length. I think I’ll wait for your series to continue (or for me to read it if it did, I don’t and won’t have a lot of attention to spare for a while) before continuing with my questions.
In the mean time I’ll just leave a few comments about the examples you gave here, in case it helps understanding better what I’m interested in. (Your “goal structure” phrasing touches but isn’t quite what I’m trying to express.)
The things I’ve seen Adelene mention don’t quite interest me. (I mean, they’re interesting, and I probably would like experiencing them on occasion, but it’s not something I’d spend effort for.)
Your concern about my casual attitude is probably unwarranted. I’m just not very concerned with thinking about potentially unpleasant side effects before determining that the potential good effects are worth the effort, which is why you probably got that impression. (As an example, before considering learning to fly I would definitely consider the dangers, but only after deciding that flying would be useful to me at all.)
You suggest that “wide perceptual width” is a side effect of enlightenment and may lead to strong improvements in the ability to observe and describe parts of one’s visual field that are not actively being focused on. That is interesting in the sense I’m trying to describe; I’m quite skeptical the kind of meditation you describe would have that efect (rather than seeming to have that effect to a practitioner), but it is testable enough for my purposes. It’s probably not something I’d invest an hour a day for a year even assuming certainty of effect and no side effects, but together with several other things of the kind I might give more thought.
(That said, I’m not sure exactly what that “may” means; are you not sure that’s an effect, or you’re sure that’s an effect but it only happens for some people? In either case, I’d like more details.)
ETA—Forgot to mention: meditating for pleasure is not “dissaproved of” by my “goal structure”, in the sense that that’s nothing wrong with it, but I already have more things I can do for pleasure than time to do them; “pleasure” is not one of the reasons I might take up meditation for (this century).
Hi David, thanks for taking the time to answer at such length. I think I’ll wait for your series to continue (or for me to read it if it did, I don’t and won’t have a lot of attention to spare for a while) before continuing with my questions.
In the mean time I’ll just leave a few comments about the examples you gave here, in case it helps understanding better what I’m interested in. (Your “goal structure” phrasing touches but isn’t quite what I’m trying to express.)
The things I’ve seen Adelene mention don’t quite interest me. (I mean, they’re interesting, and I probably would like experiencing them on occasion, but it’s not something I’d spend effort for.)
Your concern about my casual attitude is probably unwarranted. I’m just not very concerned with thinking about potentially unpleasant side effects before determining that the potential good effects are worth the effort, which is why you probably got that impression. (As an example, before considering learning to fly I would definitely consider the dangers, but only after deciding that flying would be useful to me at all.)
You suggest that “wide perceptual width” is a side effect of enlightenment and may lead to strong improvements in the ability to observe and describe parts of one’s visual field that are not actively being focused on. That is interesting in the sense I’m trying to describe; I’m quite skeptical the kind of meditation you describe would have that efect (rather than seeming to have that effect to a practitioner), but it is testable enough for my purposes. It’s probably not something I’d invest an hour a day for a year even assuming certainty of effect and no side effects, but together with several other things of the kind I might give more thought.
(That said, I’m not sure exactly what that “may” means; are you not sure that’s an effect, or you’re sure that’s an effect but it only happens for some people? In either case, I’d like more details.)
ETA—Forgot to mention: meditating for pleasure is not “dissaproved of” by my “goal structure”, in the sense that that’s nothing wrong with it, but I already have more things I can do for pleasure than time to do them; “pleasure” is not one of the reasons I might take up meditation for (this century).