I think you’re too close to see objectively. I haven’t observed any room for policy discussions in this forum that stray from what is acceptable to the mods and active participants. If a discussion doesn’t allow for opposing viewpoints, it’s of little value. In my experience, and from what I’ve heard from others who’ve tried posting here and quit, you have not succeeded in making this a forum where people with opposing viewpoints feel welcome.
But if the science symposium allows the janitor to interrupt the speakers and take all day pontificating about his crackpot perpetual motion machine, it’s also of little value. It gets worse if we then allow the conspiracy theorists to feed off of each other. Experts need a protected space to converse, or we’re stuck at the lowest common denominator (incoherent yelling, eventually). We unapologetically do not want trolls to feel welcome here.
Can you accept that the other extreme is bad? I’m not trying to motte-and-bailey you, but moderation is hard. The virtue lies between the extremes, but not always exactly in the center.
What I want from LessWrong is high epistemic standards. That’s compatible with opposing viewpoints, but only when they try to meet our standards, not when they’re making obvious mistakes in reasoning. Some of our highest-karma posts have been opposing views!
Do you have concrete examples? In each of those cases, are you confident it’s because of the opposing view, or could it be their low standards?
Your example of the janitor interrupting the scientist is a good demonstration of my point. I’ve organized over a hundred cybersecurity events featuring over a thousand speakers and I’ve never had a single janitor interrupt a talk. On the other hand, I’ve had numerous “experts” attempt to pass off fiction as fact, draw assumptions from faulty data, and generally behave far worse than any janitor might due to their inflated egos.
Based on my conversations with computer science and philosophy professors who aren’t EA-affiliated, and several who are, their posts are frequently down-voted simply because they represent opposite viewpoints.
Do the moderators of this forum do regular assessments to see how they can make improvements in the online culture so that there’s more diversity in perspective?
can’t comment on moderators, since I’m not one, but I’d be curious to see links you think were received worse than is justified and see if I can learn from them
I’m echoing other commenters somewhat, but—personally—I do not see people being down-voted simply for having different viewpoints. I’m very sympathetic to people trying to genuinely argue against “prevailing” attitudes or simply trying to foster a better general understanding. (E.g. I appreciate Matthew Barnett’s presence, even though I very much disagree with his conclusions and find him overconfident).
Now, of course, the fact that I don’t notice the kind of posts you say are being down-voted may be because they are sufficiently filtered out, which indeed would be undesirable from my perspective and good to know.
I think you’re too close to see objectively. I haven’t observed any room for policy discussions in this forum that stray from what is acceptable to the mods and active participants. If a discussion doesn’t allow for opposing viewpoints, it’s of little value. In my experience, and from what I’ve heard from others who’ve tried posting here and quit, you have not succeeded in making this a forum where people with opposing viewpoints feel welcome.
You are not wrong to complain. That’s feedback. But this feels too vague to be actionable.
First, we may agree on more than you think. Yes, groupthink can be a problem, and gets worse over time, if not actively countered. True scientists are heretics.
But if the science symposium allows the janitor to interrupt the speakers and take all day pontificating about his crackpot perpetual motion machine, it’s also of little value. It gets worse if we then allow the conspiracy theorists to feed off of each other. Experts need a protected space to converse, or we’re stuck at the lowest common denominator (incoherent yelling, eventually). We unapologetically do not want trolls to feel welcome here.
Can you accept that the other extreme is bad? I’m not trying to motte-and-bailey you, but moderation is hard. The virtue lies between the extremes, but not always exactly in the center.
What I want from LessWrong is high epistemic standards. That’s compatible with opposing viewpoints, but only when they try to meet our standards, not when they’re making obvious mistakes in reasoning. Some of our highest-karma posts have been opposing views!
Do you have concrete examples? In each of those cases, are you confident it’s because of the opposing view, or could it be their low standards?
Your example of the janitor interrupting the scientist is a good demonstration of my point. I’ve organized over a hundred cybersecurity events featuring over a thousand speakers and I’ve never had a single janitor interrupt a talk. On the other hand, I’ve had numerous “experts” attempt to pass off fiction as fact, draw assumptions from faulty data, and generally behave far worse than any janitor might due to their inflated egos.
Based on my conversations with computer science and philosophy professors who aren’t EA-affiliated, and several who are, their posts are frequently down-voted simply because they represent opposite viewpoints.
Do the moderators of this forum do regular assessments to see how they can make improvements in the online culture so that there’s more diversity in perspective?
can’t comment on moderators, since I’m not one, but I’d be curious to see links you think were received worse than is justified and see if I can learn from them
I’m echoing other commenters somewhat, but—personally—I do not see people being down-voted simply for having different viewpoints. I’m very sympathetic to people trying to genuinely argue against “prevailing” attitudes or simply trying to foster a better general understanding. (E.g. I appreciate Matthew Barnett’s presence, even though I very much disagree with his conclusions and find him overconfident). Now, of course, the fact that I don’t notice the kind of posts you say are being down-voted may be because they are sufficiently filtered out, which indeed would be undesirable from my perspective and good to know.