Maybe I just don’t get it because I’m not part of the Berkeley Community, I just read the writing. But my immediate reaction to this is like, why does Zack care so much about what Eliezer (2024) does or does not think? Or even whether, these days, he is or is not a fraud?
Like if you thought what he wrote in 2007 was great, just listen to that? Many (all?) authors who write great books have also written worse books. Maybe Zack’s opinion is falling a long way from wherever it was.
But perhaps he would be happier to adopt a more ecumenical non-Berkeley-ite stance, which I think has been common all along outside The Berkeley Community, and which is something like “Eliezer wrote some great stuff that was very influential on my thinking and that I still believe was very insightful, and I really appreciate that. I enjoy reading LW more than I think I’d enjoy the marginal alternative use of reading time, but I don’t go too far out of my way to pay attention to or care about what he’s up to these days.”—rather than assigning himself an Epic Quest to Win This Argument.
I think I’m trying to make a different point than footnote 20?
It seems like you are taking me to be saying something like “You shouldn’t care what EY thinks about this Trans issue because “Everybody Knows” not to take his statements on this seriously”—that’s how I read FN20.
Whereas I think my point is much more general and really not specific to Trans at all—like why be so deeply invested in the contents of some one guy’s mind, at all? On any issue?
EY wrote some great (book-like objects). Inspiring, even. Worldview changing. But, like, whatever his opinions are today (on any issue), my view is mostly like, who cares? Either his arguments are convincing or they aren’t.
By analogy, suppose (counter factually) that I think that Barack Obama was the greatest president in history (he wasn’t, but he has to be alive for this analogy to work). Does that mean that I should decide what I think about today’s political and policy problems based on what Obama thinks? Such that if Obama was wrong about something, I should engage in an epic quest to Get Obama’s Attention and get him to admit he’s wrong? I mean, that would be ridiculous, right?
Yes, that would be ridiculous. It would also be ridiculous in a broadly similar way if someone spent eight years in the prime of their life prosecuting a false advertising lawsuit against a “World’s Best” brand ice-cream for not actually being the best in the world.
But if someone did somehow make that mistake, I could see why they might end up writing a few blog posts afterwards telling the Whole Dumb Story.
Absolutely! I value your voice. But, and excuse me if this is a misread, your posts in this series read to me like you are still trying to convince yourself and/or him.
It reads like you are a sort of rationalist Martin Luther criticizing the Pope. But, like, there are already a lot of metaphorically-protestant rationalists.
Maybe I just don’t get it because I’m not part of the Berkeley Community, I just read the writing. But my immediate reaction to this is like, why does Zack care so much about what Eliezer (2024) does or does not think? Or even whether, these days, he is or is not a fraud?
Like if you thought what he wrote in 2007 was great, just listen to that? Many (all?) authors who write great books have also written worse books. Maybe Zack’s opinion is falling a long way from wherever it was.
But perhaps he would be happier to adopt a more ecumenical non-Berkeley-ite stance, which I think has been common all along outside The Berkeley Community, and which is something like “Eliezer wrote some great stuff that was very influential on my thinking and that I still believe was very insightful, and I really appreciate that. I enjoy reading LW more than I think I’d enjoy the marginal alternative use of reading time, but I don’t go too far out of my way to pay attention to or care about what he’s up to these days.”—rather than assigning himself an Epic Quest to Win This Argument.
You are perhaps wiser than me. (See also footnote 20.)
I think I’m trying to make a different point than footnote 20?
It seems like you are taking me to be saying something like “You shouldn’t care what EY thinks about this Trans issue because “Everybody Knows” not to take his statements on this seriously”—that’s how I read FN20.
Whereas I think my point is much more general and really not specific to Trans at all—like why be so deeply invested in the contents of some one guy’s mind, at all? On any issue?
EY wrote some great (book-like objects). Inspiring, even. Worldview changing. But, like, whatever his opinions are today (on any issue), my view is mostly like, who cares? Either his arguments are convincing or they aren’t.
By analogy, suppose (counter factually) that I think that Barack Obama was the greatest president in history (he wasn’t, but he has to be alive for this analogy to work). Does that mean that I should decide what I think about today’s political and policy problems based on what Obama thinks? Such that if Obama was wrong about something, I should engage in an epic quest to Get Obama’s Attention and get him to admit he’s wrong? I mean, that would be ridiculous, right?
Yes, that would be ridiculous. It would also be ridiculous in a broadly similar way if someone spent eight years in the prime of their life prosecuting a false advertising lawsuit against a “World’s Best” brand ice-cream for not actually being the best in the world.
But if someone did somehow make that mistake, I could see why they might end up writing a few blog posts afterwards telling the Whole Dumb Story.
Absolutely! I value your voice. But, and excuse me if this is a misread, your posts in this series read to me like you are still trying to convince yourself and/or him.
It reads like you are a sort of rationalist Martin Luther criticizing the Pope. But, like, there are already a lot of metaphorically-protestant rationalists.