I’m basically betting that a short term lack of oil (as evidenced by reduced production in 2008 and high current price), will put a break on that expansion. Or the industrialization of china will only happen in if first would countries reduce their energy consumption to allow it, as they did in 2008.
An interesting article on china and energy. Nuclear has a lead time (optimistically ) of 3 years, so their prediction of 60-90 GWe won’t be too far off. It actually looks like they are planning more wind than nuclear. I’m really curious where they expect the 500 GWe odd of energy they don’t mention to come from. All coal? That’ll be pretty dirty.
I was probably a little overconfident in my initial bet. I do expect the ratio of energy consumption growth to population growth to trend downwards though.
It actually looks like they are planning more wind than nuclear.
Wrong. (Well, a little bit right, but wrong in all the ways that matter.) According to the article you linked, they’re planning to build about 60-90 GW of nuclear capacity (let’s say 80 GW to simplify the arithmetic) and 100 GW of wind. But what we really care about is how much energy they get from those sources per year, and to find that, we have to multiply the peak power generation capacities by the capacity factor for each source.
Nuclear power has a capacity factor of at least 93% for the newer plant designs that China is building (or even for older plants after operators get experience), so we’ll say that their average production is (80 GW) * 0.93 = 74.4 GW average.
Wind power has a capacity factor of around 21% right now. Since we’re talking about 2020, i.e. The Future!!, let’s assume they get it up to a whopping 30%. Their energy production from wind would come out to (100 GW) * 0.3 = 30 GW average, or less than half of their projected nuclear production.
The average power figures are much more meaningful than the capacity numbers, but the wind salesmen quote whatever numbers make them sound most impressive, and the news media report it. It’s as ubiquitous as it is misleading.
The article estimates that China’s electricity capacity will double from 2008 to 2020; it doesn’t seem to list an estimate for electricity production, but I’d think it would trend in much the same way, significantly faster than China’s (rapidly falling) population increase. Reading this article makes me even more eager than before to take the “over” at these odds.
I’m rethinking my wager. To give you some information that I found. Which I should have looked at before.
Average energy consumption increase over 15 years to 2008 has been 2.13%. This is very choppy data it varies between 0.09% and 4.5%(2004 then trending downwards). This included a doubling on energy consumption by china in 7 years (2001-2008).
Average population growth is trending downwards and is at 1.1%.
Because of the Second World’s larger growth rate (and the fact that they occupy a larger part of the total now), I think the odds of energy growth being lower than 2.4% are somewhat worse than even. I’m quite metauncertain; I don’t think I’d actually bet unless someone were giving me 3:2 odds to bet the ‘over’, or 4:1 odds to bet the ‘under’.
I’m basically betting that a short term lack of oil (as evidenced by reduced production in 2008 and high current price), will put a break on that expansion. Or the industrialization of china will only happen in if first would countries reduce their energy consumption to allow it, as they did in 2008.
Data from the BP energy review.
Interesting consideration; but on the other hand, China isn’t afraid to build nuclear power plants or burn coal.
An interesting article on china and energy. Nuclear has a lead time (optimistically ) of 3 years, so their prediction of 60-90 GWe won’t be too far off. It actually looks like they are planning more wind than nuclear. I’m really curious where they expect the 500 GWe odd of energy they don’t mention to come from. All coal? That’ll be pretty dirty.
I was probably a little overconfident in my initial bet. I do expect the ratio of energy consumption growth to population growth to trend downwards though.
Wrong. (Well, a little bit right, but wrong in all the ways that matter.) According to the article you linked, they’re planning to build about 60-90 GW of nuclear capacity (let’s say 80 GW to simplify the arithmetic) and 100 GW of wind. But what we really care about is how much energy they get from those sources per year, and to find that, we have to multiply the peak power generation capacities by the capacity factor for each source.
Nuclear power has a capacity factor of at least 93% for the newer plant designs that China is building (or even for older plants after operators get experience), so we’ll say that their average production is (80 GW) * 0.93 = 74.4 GW average.
Wind power has a capacity factor of around 21% right now. Since we’re talking about 2020, i.e. The Future!!, let’s assume they get it up to a whopping 30%. Their energy production from wind would come out to (100 GW) * 0.3 = 30 GW average, or less than half of their projected nuclear production.
The average power figures are much more meaningful than the capacity numbers, but the wind salesmen quote whatever numbers make them sound most impressive, and the news media report it. It’s as ubiquitous as it is misleading.
Mea culpa. I forgot how misleading some of the energy numbers could be.
The article estimates that China’s electricity capacity will double from 2008 to 2020; it doesn’t seem to list an estimate for electricity production, but I’d think it would trend in much the same way, significantly faster than China’s (rapidly falling) population increase. Reading this article makes me even more eager than before to take the “over” at these odds.
I’m rethinking my wager. To give you some information that I found. Which I should have looked at before.
Average energy consumption increase over 15 years to 2008 has been 2.13%. This is very choppy data it varies between 0.09% and 4.5%(2004 then trending downwards). This included a doubling on energy consumption by china in 7 years (2001-2008).
Average population growth is trending downwards and is at 1.1%.
I was probably putting too much weight on my own countries not very well thought out energy policy.
What odds would you give on energy consumption growth rate being lower for the next 10 years than the previous 10 (2.4%)?
Because of the Second World’s larger growth rate (and the fact that they occupy a larger part of the total now), I think the odds of energy growth being lower than 2.4% are somewhat worse than even. I’m quite metauncertain; I don’t think I’d actually bet unless someone were giving me 3:2 odds to bet the ‘over’, or 4:1 odds to bet the ‘under’.