The Headmaster can feel when a student dies in Hogwarts. That’s how he showed up the moment Hermione died.
But the Headmaster can also feel when a creature unknown to Hogwarts is in Hogwarts. That’s how he showed up when Harry rejected his phoenix.
But so why didn’t Dumbledore feel the troll and intercept it much sooner? I expect before long the Dumbledore-haters — both those in the story and those on Less Wrong and Reddit — will latch on to this as proof that Dumbledore has been evil all along.
The problem is, we know a thing or two about Hogwarts’s wards by now. We know, for instance, that Salazar Slytherin was the one who wove them:
or by some entity which Salazar Slytherin keyed into his wards at a higher level than the Headmaster himself.
Salazar Slytherin’s wards. Salazar Slytherin, who left a basilisk that knew all his secrets. Secrets that Quirrellmort now knows.
Dumbledore will try to tell the wizarding world that the only explanation of Hermione’s death is that Voldemort was behind the attack. This will be seen by the world as the same thing Headmaster Dippet actually did when Myrtle died: the accusation of an unlikely — “preposterous!” — scapegoat.
And now, Lucius Malfoy is there to stir up the opposition:
Lucius Malfoy controls Minister Fudge, through the Daily Prophet he sways all Britain, only by bare margins does he not control enough of the Board of Governors to oust me from Hogwarts.
Those bare margins are about to be erased. For the first time in fifty years, a student has died in Hogwarts, and there is reason to suspect Dumbledore of involvement. Dumbledore is not going to be Headmaster for very much longer.
And the Philosopher’s Stone is there, in Hogwarts, in the place, until now, of Dumbledore’s own power.
Eliezer took the troll fight that a first-year Ron Weasley won in canon and turned it into the death of the #2 character in Methods. I can’t wait to see what he does with this.
Lucius is going to be outraged and lead an opposition to Dumbledore because the attempted murderer of his son, who he tried to send to Azkaban for 10 years, got killed in Hogwarts? I think that would seem a bit odd to everyone involved.
Lucius has means of his own, and had every reason to arrange Hermione’s death.
No, Lucius is going to stir up an opposition to Dumbledore because Dumbledore is his hated enemy. Do you honestly think that Lucius would pass by any excuse to harm Dumbledore?
(And he will have a easy time at it too. A troll loose in Hogwarts, killing a student? That will reflect extremely badly on Dumbledore, even from the viewpoint of the neutral factions.)
Do you honestly think that Lucius would pass by any excuse to harm Dumbledore?
He’d pass on excuses that don’t benefit him. He’s the obvious suspect. Accomplishing the crime redounds to his reputation and benefit. Why spoil it?
The alternative you propose would seem rather absurd in the face of everyone assuming Lucius arranged the death of Hermione in the first place, after failing to arrange her death in Azkaban.
You want everybody to think Lucius is behind it. They have no reason to want to think that. I think this is warping your thinking. From a basic political point of view, I find it unlikely that any but Dumbledore’s allies would be trying to pin the blame on Malfoy.
Here, tell you what. Predictions should be recorded. Here is my prediction on PredictionBook.
The Headmaster was off campus; it’s not necessarily true that he can access all the Hogwarts wards from off campus. He did notice when Hermione died, but considering the giant soulsplosion it’s likely that this was somewhat more obvious to him than a wards violation. Furthermore, considering the timing of his absences, it’s likely that Dumbledore was off hunting Horcruxes—an excellent opportunity, therefore, for Quirrell to lure Dumbledore into a trap to induce magical radio silence.
Politically speaking, it makes no sense for Dumbledore to kill Hermione. Even the Daily Prophet would have a hard time spinning that particular story. The Wizengamot’s response to the death of Draco Malfoy’s supposed assassin and Lucius Malfoy’s hated enemy will not, no matter the circumstances, be to flock to Lucius’ side. It would, however, still reflect very badly on Dumbledore; obviously, mountain trolls should not show up in schools, and the responsibility for preventing such things lies with him.
The Wizengamot’s response to the death of Draco Malfoy’s supposed assassin and Lucius Malfoy’s hated enemy will not, no matter the circumstances, be to flock to Lucius’ side.
I think you’re being generous to the wizarding public. Lucius Malfoy can probably prove — the Hogwarts wards can possibly prove — that neither Lucius nor Draco has been in Hogwarts for quite some time. It won’t be too hard for Lucius to say the better-written equivalent of
“Regardless of my personal feelings for Miss Granger, I would never besmirch House Malfoy by reneging in such brutal fashion on a matter of House honor. The question at hand is this: how could Dumbledore not have known the troll was in Hogwarts? And if he did know, where was he during the attack? If you would like to propose that Dumbledore and I were in collusion on the matter — well, I’m sure a simple show of hands will make clear how likely this assembly is to believe that.”
Not too hard for Lucius to talk his way out of. Very much harder for Dumbledore.
EDIT: I agree that not all of Hogwarts’s wards are necessarily available to Dumbledore off-campus. But the mechanisms of these two wards have been described identically: Poof, he appears, and says “I felt X”. I wouldn’t assume by default that two wards that function identically would differ in such an important aspect.
DOUBLE EDIT: It could easily be said that it makes political sense for Dumbledore to kill Hermione, as an attempt to frame Lucius. But then, if Dumbledore doesn’t actually speak up against Lucius…
It is complicated. But I still think Dumbledore is in trouble, just from the perspective of Eliezer taking a more serious, realistic look at events from canon.
Honestly, I think you’re the one overestimating the Wizarding public. The arguments from the wards aren’t bad ones, necessarily, but they’re technical ones. They won’t play well. At best, they’ll turn into conspiracy theories. Most of the public is going to look at the scene and see Lucius triumphant and Dumbledore with a black eye, and make the obvious conclusion.
It will still be basically the same in front of the Wizengamot. Having Hermione killed under his own protection means trouble for Dumbledore—it would be the second major security incident at Hogwarts in less than a month, and the first student killed in fifty years. It’s not an impossible black eye for Dumbledore to overcome, and he could surely take it if necessary. But… Dumbledore doesn’t have a compelling reason to take the hit. Framing Lucius is not an especially good motive, particularly considering that half of the Wizengamot cares not one whit about Hermione Granger’s life or death. And, if he did want her dead, he could have avoided the fallout by sending her home over Spring Break with a snake in her trunk.
The technical argument… is still a bit above the Wizengamot. They might understand, “well, because of the wards this should have been impossible,” but this will translate to “Lucius Malfoy found a way to trick Dumbledore’s magic” and not “Hmm. Should Lucius Malfoy and his hired help really be in the same weight class as the Founders’ wards?”
Finally, you’re assuming that Lucius wants to clear his name. I don’t think this makes very much sense, either. Sure, it’s bad PR in many circles, but Lucius already has a horrible reputation, and I don’t expect he’ll be terribly concerned. On the other hand, killing a student right under Dumbledore’s nose would be an excellent show of force, and it would impress people that he cares rather more about. It might be exactly what he needs, in fact—I imagine his credibility took quite a hit when Hermione Granger managed to escape punishment for an attempted assassination.
The Wizengamot’s response to the death of Draco Malfoy’s supposed assassin and Lucius Malfoy’s hated enemy will not, no matter the circumstances, be to flock to Lucius’ side.
I don’t know about that. People like a winner. Being thwarted in his revenge against Hermione doesn’t look so good, while killing an enemy under Dumbledore’s protection does.
The only people who would view this event as “killing an enemy under Dumbledore’s protection” and that the death of a first year girl makes Lucius look like a winner are going to be the people already on Lucius’ side.
But so why didn’t Dumbledore feel the troll and intercept it much sooner?
In canon, the troll was in Hogwarts already, because Dumbledore brought it in to guard the Sorcerer’s Stone. If he did something similar in Methods!canon, then Quirrell could easily have taken advantage of this to escape notice by the wards.
No. In canon, there were two trolls. Everyone seems to forget this. But then again, in canon Hogwarts was never described as having the same kind of comprehensive ward system it has in HPMOR.
Eliezer took the troll fight that a first-year Ron Weasley won in canon and turned it into the death of the #2 character in Methods.
To be fair, Methods trolls are significantly more powerful, in keeping with the First Law of Fanfiction—or maybe just to lay the groundwork for this O_o
The Headmaster can feel when a student dies in Hogwarts. That’s how he showed up the moment Hermione died.
But the Headmaster can also feel when a creature unknown to Hogwarts is in Hogwarts. That’s how he showed up when Harry rejected his phoenix.
But so why didn’t Dumbledore feel the troll and intercept it much sooner? I expect before long the Dumbledore-haters — both those in the story and those on Less Wrong and Reddit — will latch on to this as proof that Dumbledore has been evil all along.
The problem is, we know a thing or two about Hogwarts’s wards by now. We know, for instance, that Salazar Slytherin was the one who wove them:
Salazar Slytherin’s wards. Salazar Slytherin, who left a basilisk that knew all his secrets. Secrets that Quirrellmort now knows.
Dumbledore will try to tell the wizarding world that the only explanation of Hermione’s death is that Voldemort was behind the attack. This will be seen by the world as the same thing Headmaster Dippet actually did when Myrtle died: the accusation of an unlikely — “preposterous!” — scapegoat.
And now, Lucius Malfoy is there to stir up the opposition:
Those bare margins are about to be erased. For the first time in fifty years, a student has died in Hogwarts, and there is reason to suspect Dumbledore of involvement. Dumbledore is not going to be Headmaster for very much longer.
And the Philosopher’s Stone is there, in Hogwarts, in the place, until now, of Dumbledore’s own power.
Eliezer took the troll fight that a first-year Ron Weasley won in canon and turned it into the death of the #2 character in Methods. I can’t wait to see what he does with this.
Lucius is going to be outraged and lead an opposition to Dumbledore because the attempted murderer of his son, who he tried to send to Azkaban for 10 years, got killed in Hogwarts? I think that would seem a bit odd to everyone involved.
Lucius has means of his own, and had every reason to arrange Hermione’s death.
No, Lucius is going to stir up an opposition to Dumbledore because Dumbledore is his hated enemy. Do you honestly think that Lucius would pass by any excuse to harm Dumbledore?
(And he will have a easy time at it too. A troll loose in Hogwarts, killing a student? That will reflect extremely badly on Dumbledore, even from the viewpoint of the neutral factions.)
He’d pass on excuses that don’t benefit him. He’s the obvious suspect. Accomplishing the crime redounds to his reputation and benefit. Why spoil it?
The alternative you propose would seem rather absurd in the face of everyone assuming Lucius arranged the death of Hermione in the first place, after failing to arrange her death in Azkaban.
You want everybody to think Lucius is behind it. They have no reason to want to think that. I think this is warping your thinking. From a basic political point of view, I find it unlikely that any but Dumbledore’s allies would be trying to pin the blame on Malfoy.
Here, tell you what. Predictions should be recorded. Here is my prediction on PredictionBook.
The Headmaster was off campus; it’s not necessarily true that he can access all the Hogwarts wards from off campus. He did notice when Hermione died, but considering the giant soulsplosion it’s likely that this was somewhat more obvious to him than a wards violation. Furthermore, considering the timing of his absences, it’s likely that Dumbledore was off hunting Horcruxes—an excellent opportunity, therefore, for Quirrell to lure Dumbledore into a trap to induce magical radio silence.
Politically speaking, it makes no sense for Dumbledore to kill Hermione. Even the Daily Prophet would have a hard time spinning that particular story. The Wizengamot’s response to the death of Draco Malfoy’s supposed assassin and Lucius Malfoy’s hated enemy will not, no matter the circumstances, be to flock to Lucius’ side. It would, however, still reflect very badly on Dumbledore; obviously, mountain trolls should not show up in schools, and the responsibility for preventing such things lies with him.
I think you’re being generous to the wizarding public. Lucius Malfoy can probably prove — the Hogwarts wards can possibly prove — that neither Lucius nor Draco has been in Hogwarts for quite some time. It won’t be too hard for Lucius to say the better-written equivalent of
“Regardless of my personal feelings for Miss Granger, I would never besmirch House Malfoy by reneging in such brutal fashion on a matter of House honor. The question at hand is this: how could Dumbledore not have known the troll was in Hogwarts? And if he did know, where was he during the attack? If you would like to propose that Dumbledore and I were in collusion on the matter — well, I’m sure a simple show of hands will make clear how likely this assembly is to believe that.”
Not too hard for Lucius to talk his way out of. Very much harder for Dumbledore.
EDIT: I agree that not all of Hogwarts’s wards are necessarily available to Dumbledore off-campus. But the mechanisms of these two wards have been described identically: Poof, he appears, and says “I felt X”. I wouldn’t assume by default that two wards that function identically would differ in such an important aspect.
DOUBLE EDIT: It could easily be said that it makes political sense for Dumbledore to kill Hermione, as an attempt to frame Lucius. But then, if Dumbledore doesn’t actually speak up against Lucius…
It is complicated. But I still think Dumbledore is in trouble, just from the perspective of Eliezer taking a more serious, realistic look at events from canon.
Honestly, I think you’re the one overestimating the Wizarding public. The arguments from the wards aren’t bad ones, necessarily, but they’re technical ones. They won’t play well. At best, they’ll turn into conspiracy theories. Most of the public is going to look at the scene and see Lucius triumphant and Dumbledore with a black eye, and make the obvious conclusion.
It will still be basically the same in front of the Wizengamot. Having Hermione killed under his own protection means trouble for Dumbledore—it would be the second major security incident at Hogwarts in less than a month, and the first student killed in fifty years. It’s not an impossible black eye for Dumbledore to overcome, and he could surely take it if necessary. But… Dumbledore doesn’t have a compelling reason to take the hit. Framing Lucius is not an especially good motive, particularly considering that half of the Wizengamot cares not one whit about Hermione Granger’s life or death. And, if he did want her dead, he could have avoided the fallout by sending her home over Spring Break with a snake in her trunk.
The technical argument… is still a bit above the Wizengamot. They might understand, “well, because of the wards this should have been impossible,” but this will translate to “Lucius Malfoy found a way to trick Dumbledore’s magic” and not “Hmm. Should Lucius Malfoy and his hired help really be in the same weight class as the Founders’ wards?”
Finally, you’re assuming that Lucius wants to clear his name. I don’t think this makes very much sense, either. Sure, it’s bad PR in many circles, but Lucius already has a horrible reputation, and I don’t expect he’ll be terribly concerned. On the other hand, killing a student right under Dumbledore’s nose would be an excellent show of force, and it would impress people that he cares rather more about. It might be exactly what he needs, in fact—I imagine his credibility took quite a hit when Hermione Granger managed to escape punishment for an attempted assassination.
I don’t know about that. People like a winner. Being thwarted in his revenge against Hermione doesn’t look so good, while killing an enemy under Dumbledore’s protection does.
The only people who would view this event as “killing an enemy under Dumbledore’s protection” and that the death of a first year girl makes Lucius look like a winner are going to be the people already on Lucius’ side.
People like power, and those who have it.
I am a little surprised that there has been no discussion of Lucius as the obvious suspect.
It was Quirrell in the books? And, lets face it, it fits fairly well if you assume he was the one targeting her from the beginning.
In canon, the troll was in Hogwarts already, because Dumbledore brought it in to guard the Sorcerer’s Stone. If he did something similar in Methods!canon, then Quirrell could easily have taken advantage of this to escape notice by the wards.
No. In canon, there were two trolls. Everyone seems to forget this. But then again, in canon Hogwarts was never described as having the same kind of comprehensive ward system it has in HPMOR.
To be fair, Methods trolls are significantly more powerful, in keeping with the First Law of Fanfiction—or maybe just to lay the groundwork for this O_o
.