Thanks, this post made me seriously consider applying to a PhD, and I strong-upvoted. I had vaguely assumed that PhDs take way too long and don’t allow enough access to compute compared to industry AI labs. But considering the long lead time required for the application process and the reminder that you can always take new opportunities as they come up, I now think applying is worth it.
However, looking into it, putting together a high-quality application starting now and finishing by the deadline seems approximately impossible? If the deadline were December 15, that would give you two weeks; other schools like Berkeley have even earlier deadlines. I asked ChatGPT how long it would take to apply to just a single school, and it said it would take 43–59 hours of time spent working, or ~4–6 weeks in real time. Claude said 37-55 hours/4-6 weeks.
Not to discourage anyone from starting their application now if they think they can do it—I guess if you’re sufficiently productive and agentic and maybe take some amphetamines, you can do anything. But this seems like a pretty crazy timeline. Just the thought of asking someone to write me a recommendation letter in a two-week timeframe makes me feel bad.
Your post does make me think “if I were going to be applying to a PhD next December, what would I want to do now?” That seems pretty clarifying, and would probably be a helpful frame even if it turns out that a better opportunity comes along and I never apply to a PhD.
I think it’d be a good idea for you to repost this in August or early September of next year!
The AI time estimates are wildly high IMO, across basically every category. Some parts are also clearly optional (e.g. spending 2 hours reviewing). If you know what you want to research, writing a statement can be much shorter. I have previously applied to ML PhDs in two weeks and gotten an offer. The recommendation letters are the longest and most awkward to request at such notice, but two weeks isn’t obviously insane, especially if you have a good relationship with your reference letter writers (many students do things later than is recommended, no reference letter writer in academia will be shocked by this).
If you apply in 2025 December, you would start in 2026 fall. That is a very very long time from now. I think the stupidly long application cycle is pure dysfunction from academia, but you still need to take it into account.
(Also fyi, some UK programs have deadlines in spring if you can get your own funding)
I agree that it’s not impossible, but it’s definitely very late in the cycle to start thinking about PhD applications, and the claim that it would be more helpful to make the case for a PhD to people earlier in the cycle seems totally reasonable to me
+1 to the other comments, I think this is totally doable, especially if you can take time off work.
The hard part imo is letters of recommendation, especially if you don’t have many people who’ve worked with you on research before. If you feel awkward about asking for letters of recommendation on short notice (which multiple people have asked me for in the past week, if it helps, so this is pretty normal), one thing that makes it lower effort for the letter writer is giving them a bunch of notes on specific things you did while working with them and what traits of your’s this demonstrates or, even better, offering to write a rough first draft letter for them to edit (try not to give very similar letters to all your recommenders though!).
Thanks Neel, this comment pushed me over the edge into deciding to apply to PhDs! Offering to write a draft and taking off days of work are both great ideas. I just emailed my prospective letter writers and got 2⁄3 yeses so far.
I just wrote another top-level comment on this post asking about the best schools to apply to, feel free to reply if you have opinions :)
I started working on PhD applications about 12 days ago. I expect to have fairly polished applications for the first deadline on December 1, despite not working on this full time. So I think it’s quite possible to do applications for the December 15 deadlines. You would need to contact your referees (and potential supervisors for UK universities) in the next couple of days.
Thanks, this post made me seriously consider applying to a PhD, and I strong-upvoted. I had vaguely assumed that PhDs take way too long and don’t allow enough access to compute compared to industry AI labs. But considering the long lead time required for the application process and the reminder that you can always take new opportunities as they come up, I now think applying is worth it.
However, looking into it, putting together a high-quality application starting now and finishing by the deadline seems approximately impossible? If the deadline were December 15, that would give you two weeks; other schools like Berkeley have even earlier deadlines. I asked ChatGPT how long it would take to apply to just a single school, and it said it would take 43–59 hours of time spent working, or ~4–6 weeks in real time. Claude said 37-55 hours/4-6 weeks.
Not to discourage anyone from starting their application now if they think they can do it—I guess if you’re sufficiently productive and agentic and maybe take some amphetamines, you can do anything. But this seems like a pretty crazy timeline. Just the thought of asking someone to write me a recommendation letter in a two-week timeframe makes me feel bad.
Your post does make me think “if I were going to be applying to a PhD next December, what would I want to do now?” That seems pretty clarifying, and would probably be a helpful frame even if it turns out that a better opportunity comes along and I never apply to a PhD.
I think it’d be a good idea for you to repost this in August or early September of next year!
The AI time estimates are wildly high IMO, across basically every category. Some parts are also clearly optional (e.g. spending 2 hours reviewing). If you know what you want to research, writing a statement can be much shorter. I have previously applied to ML PhDs in two weeks and gotten an offer. The recommendation letters are the longest and most awkward to request at such notice, but two weeks isn’t obviously insane, especially if you have a good relationship with your reference letter writers (many students do things later than is recommended, no reference letter writer in academia will be shocked by this).
If you apply in 2025 December, you would start in 2026 fall. That is a very very long time from now. I think the stupidly long application cycle is pure dysfunction from academia, but you still need to take it into account.
(Also fyi, some UK programs have deadlines in spring if you can get your own funding)
I agree that it’s not impossible, but it’s definitely very late in the cycle to start thinking about PhD applications, and the claim that it would be more helpful to make the case for a PhD to people earlier in the cycle seems totally reasonable to me
+1 to the other comments, I think this is totally doable, especially if you can take time off work.
The hard part imo is letters of recommendation, especially if you don’t have many people who’ve worked with you on research before. If you feel awkward about asking for letters of recommendation on short notice (which multiple people have asked me for in the past week, if it helps, so this is pretty normal), one thing that makes it lower effort for the letter writer is giving them a bunch of notes on specific things you did while working with them and what traits of your’s this demonstrates or, even better, offering to write a rough first draft letter for them to edit (try not to give very similar letters to all your recommenders though!).
Thanks Neel, this comment pushed me over the edge into deciding to apply to PhDs! Offering to write a draft and taking off days of work are both great ideas. I just emailed my prospective letter writers and got 2⁄3 yeses so far.
I just wrote another top-level comment on this post asking about the best schools to apply to, feel free to reply if you have opinions :)
I started working on PhD applications about 12 days ago. I expect to have fairly polished applications for the first deadline on December 1, despite not working on this full time. So I think it’s quite possible to do applications for the December 15 deadlines. You would need to contact your referees (and potential supervisors for UK universities) in the next couple of days.