You can make the same argument about radios or other devices that are relays for information. Without understanding how a radio works it’s really hard to know that the content that the radio plays isn’t an emergent phenomena.
I do not get this analogy. We know quite a bit about how the brain work at the neuronal level. A rigorous program of research exists that should gives us an understanding of increasingly coarse modules over time. Simulating a brain in silico is an eventually-achievable method to extensively test almost any hypothesis we could develop.
When I say consciousness is emergent I’m saying that I believe neuroscience will eventually be able to pinpoint the mechanisms of almost any type of higher-order thought, and come up with as-useful-as-is-possible a definition of things like qualia and self-awareness, and that these mechanisms will all relate to complex, dynamic neuronal and chemical behavior in the brain.
An example non-emergent explanation of consciousness would be “the brain is an antenna for ethereal souls”, which would be hard to test but would have to be given consideration if the program I outline above completely fails to fully account for thoughts and experiences above a certain complexity.
Simulating a brain in silico is an eventually-achievable method to extensively test almost any hypothesis we could develop.
You just assume that’s true. Before we actually do run that simulation in practice we don’t know whether that’s true.
When I say consciousness is emergent I’m saying that I believe neuroscience will eventually be able to pinpoint the mechanisms of almost any type of higher-order thought
Yes, and other people do believe in souls and God. We don’t have evidence that proves either hypothesis.
An example non-emergent explanation of consciousness would be “the brain is an antenna for ethereal souls”, which would be hard to test but would have to be given consideration if the program I outline above completely fails to fully account for thoughts and experiences above a certain complexity.
Yes, and the brain as an antenna hypothesis is basically what parapsychologists like Dean Radin advocate these days. We don’t have yet evidence to prove it wrong.
Saying we could in theory run experiments that if those experiments turn out a certain way would prove our theory right is not the same thing as arguing that there evidence for your theory.
Science lives from distinguishing what you know and what you don’t know.
I am making predictions, but they are predictions that a concrete, existing program of research (the field of neuroscience) is trying to test.
I obviously can’t conjure this evidence out of thin air, because it doesn’t yet exist (and, sure, may never exist). But I am outlining why I believe that calling consciousness emergent is a perfectly valid, predictive hypothesis in the context of neuroscience (saying ‘phenomena X is emergent’ is, I believe, not an empty statement at all but instead more-or-less equivalent to saying “The question ‘What singular external thing causes phenomena X’ should be dissolved’; with panpsychism being the anti-emergent hypothesis in this case).
And I also believe that emergent consciousness is more likely to be the correct view, and I hope I’ve given clear reasons why that’s so.
I do not get this analogy. We know quite a bit about how the brain work at the neuronal level. A rigorous program of research exists that should gives us an understanding of increasingly coarse modules over time. Simulating a brain in silico is an eventually-achievable method to extensively test almost any hypothesis we could develop.
When I say consciousness is emergent I’m saying that I believe neuroscience will eventually be able to pinpoint the mechanisms of almost any type of higher-order thought, and come up with as-useful-as-is-possible a definition of things like qualia and self-awareness, and that these mechanisms will all relate to complex, dynamic neuronal and chemical behavior in the brain.
An example non-emergent explanation of consciousness would be “the brain is an antenna for ethereal souls”, which would be hard to test but would have to be given consideration if the program I outline above completely fails to fully account for thoughts and experiences above a certain complexity.
You just assume that’s true. Before we actually do run that simulation in practice we don’t know whether that’s true.
Yes, and other people do believe in souls and God. We don’t have evidence that proves either hypothesis.
Yes, and the brain as an antenna hypothesis is basically what parapsychologists like Dean Radin advocate these days. We don’t have yet evidence to prove it wrong.
Saying we could in theory run experiments that if those experiments turn out a certain way would prove our theory right is not the same thing as arguing that there evidence for your theory.
Science lives from distinguishing what you know and what you don’t know.
I am making predictions, but they are predictions that a concrete, existing program of research (the field of neuroscience) is trying to test.
I obviously can’t conjure this evidence out of thin air, because it doesn’t yet exist (and, sure, may never exist). But I am outlining why I believe that calling consciousness emergent is a perfectly valid, predictive hypothesis in the context of neuroscience (saying ‘phenomena X is emergent’ is, I believe, not an empty statement at all but instead more-or-less equivalent to saying “The question ‘What singular external thing causes phenomena X’ should be dissolved’; with panpsychism being the anti-emergent hypothesis in this case).
And I also believe that emergent consciousness is more likely to be the correct view, and I hope I’ve given clear reasons why that’s so.
You’re using “emergent” to mean “reductiomistic”, which is pretty much the opposite
I think you don’t understand what emergent means. Traffic jams emerge from individual drivers’ behavior for instance.
Emergent has more than one meaning.
Are you actually confused by my terminology (in which case I’ll clarify) or are you just being pedantic?
I am pointing out something which may stop you getting into pointless discussions with people who use the word differently.