Trans people exist, fairly abundantly. Even if you don’t agree that their self-identification is justified, it is a true fact about the world that the category exists and has clear properties. And since the truth claim they make is entirely about their subjective experience, you have little to no evidence about it and cannot realistically justify a low prior , especially not as low as the prior on physics-violating miracles.
Even if you don’t agree that their self-identification is justified, it is a true fact about the world that the category exists and has clear properties.
So does the category of people who claim to have experienced miracles.
You’re disingenuously moving the goalposts. Previously you drew analogy to “people who have experienced miracles”, and now that I’ve demonstrated out that analogy doesn’t work, you’ve retreated to “people who claim to have experienced miracles”, which is not at all the same thing.
“People who have actually experienced miracles” is a null category, and you cannot be expected to talk to them because if you are right, they don’t exist. “People who claim to have experienced miracles” is a category that definitely exists, and in order to evaluate the truth of their beliefs you should acquire some evidence about the detailed character of those beliefs, as close to firsthand as possible; you can then test this against alternate explanations, evaluate the plausibility of the alternate explanations, and update on it.
Trans people’s beliefs are entirely about internal subjective experience, which you would have no knowledge of under their explanation of events, or under any competing explanation you might hold. You have no evidence above the prior of uniform ignorance without some direct testimony about the internal subjective experience which is widely shared enough to have been labeled “being transgender”; in fact, you almost certainly have less evidence than you think you do for this topic, due to the Typical Mind fallacy. If you want to justify a strong belief that they are universally in error, you need to acquire a whole bunch of evidence to justify that.
Trans people’s beliefs are entirely about internal subjective experience,
And what are those beliefs? That they’re internal subjective experience is closer to that of a people of their claimed “gender” than of their sex? How could they possibly know this given that they have no way of knowing what a typical man’s or woman’s subjective experience is like?
That being treated as their raised gender is extremely emotionally painful and that their sexual characteristics are dissociated from them (at its most extreme this results in attempting to cut off the penis or breasts, but milder forms are extremely common). in short, Dysphoria.
I reiterate that the right way to learn what trans people’s subjective beliefs are like is to talk with some of them in a friendly social manner. I am not trans; I know somewhere between six and two dozen people, and a couple I am very close with, but I am not the right person to explain this to you. I am answering a ton of questions which you could answer much more easily by just reading some trans person’s account of their early life, like I said originally.
How is this sentence different from: “I suggest you some actual people who’ve experienced miracles to talk to with before you dismiss them”?
Trans people exist, fairly abundantly. Even if you don’t agree that their self-identification is justified, it is a true fact about the world that the category exists and has clear properties. And since the truth claim they make is entirely about their subjective experience, you have little to no evidence about it and cannot realistically justify a low prior , especially not as low as the prior on physics-violating miracles.
So does the category of people who claim to have experienced miracles.
You’re disingenuously moving the goalposts. Previously you drew analogy to “people who have experienced miracles”, and now that I’ve demonstrated out that analogy doesn’t work, you’ve retreated to “people who claim to have experienced miracles”, which is not at all the same thing.
“People who have actually experienced miracles” is a null category, and you cannot be expected to talk to them because if you are right, they don’t exist. “People who claim to have experienced miracles” is a category that definitely exists, and in order to evaluate the truth of their beliefs you should acquire some evidence about the detailed character of those beliefs, as close to firsthand as possible; you can then test this against alternate explanations, evaluate the plausibility of the alternate explanations, and update on it.
Trans people’s beliefs are entirely about internal subjective experience, which you would have no knowledge of under their explanation of events, or under any competing explanation you might hold. You have no evidence above the prior of uniform ignorance without some direct testimony about the internal subjective experience which is widely shared enough to have been labeled “being transgender”; in fact, you almost certainly have less evidence than you think you do for this topic, due to the Typical Mind fallacy. If you want to justify a strong belief that they are universally in error, you need to acquire a whole bunch of evidence to justify that.
And what are those beliefs? That they’re internal subjective experience is closer to that of a people of their claimed “gender” than of their sex? How could they possibly know this given that they have no way of knowing what a typical man’s or woman’s subjective experience is like?
That being treated as their raised gender is extremely emotionally painful and that their sexual characteristics are dissociated from them (at its most extreme this results in attempting to cut off the penis or breasts, but milder forms are extremely common). in short, Dysphoria.
I reiterate that the right way to learn what trans people’s subjective beliefs are like is to talk with some of them in a friendly social manner. I am not trans; I know somewhere between six and two dozen people, and a couple I am very close with, but I am not the right person to explain this to you. I am answering a ton of questions which you could answer much more easily by just reading some trans person’s account of their early life, like I said originally.