It would be a response if I had been talking about evolution having certain effects post the age of reproduction. But in my comment I was talking about probable maximal age.
Evolution has effects past the age of reproduction. Such as determining the probable maximal age of the organism. If there is group fitness to be contributed by an individual organism to the whole even without reproduction involved, then that individual organism’s survival is selected for—even though it itself reproducing isn’t. (This is an ancillary to kin-selection.) Average maximal lifespan of an organism is something that is determined genetically—and thus is a product of evolutionary history and ‘strategy’.
My point, however, wasn’t about evolution in this context—rather, it was about individual fitness metrics for maximal age of the human organism and, more specifically, the efforts of geriontology to uncover that data.
So yes, my statement directly addresses yours. I was specifically pointing out that the thing you were raising as a question is a field that is already well studied.
Your entire first paragraph is trivially true and doesn’t address the point at all. We’re in complete agreement that evolution can impact lifespans well beyond the reproductive age. I think that’s old enough that it is discussed at one point by Darwin although I don’t have the citation off the top of my head.
. I was specifically pointing out that the thing you were raising as a question is a field that is already well studied.
Ah, I see. now. So your point is simply that we know about this issue and that there’s been a lot of study related to it. I don’t see anywhere that would disagree with that claim. I don’t think I said anywhere in my remark anything indicating that the point about evolution pushing problems past the maximal age was at all obscure or original to me. Simply saying that it is a studied issue isn’t sufficient. You need something of the form “this is studied and has been found to be wrong”. But that’s not the case. And it is precisely not the case because there aren’t even now that many really old people. So the essential problem remains: for all we know there could be diseases that show up after around age 100 or older and we haven’t noticed them yet because the sample sizes are small. Moreover, basic evolutionary theory should give us a high prior for such diseases existing because evolution has no reason not make trade offs that benefit at some point before the approximate maximal age in the wild and would cause problems further down the line.
Evolution has effects past the age of reproduction. Such as determining the probable maximal age of the organism. If there is group fitness to be contributed by an individual organism to the whole even without reproduction involved, then that individual organism’s survival is selected for—even though it itself reproducing isn’t. (This is an ancillary to kin-selection.) Average maximal lifespan of an organism is something that is determined genetically—and thus is a product of evolutionary history and ‘strategy’.
My point, however, wasn’t about evolution in this context—rather, it was about individual fitness metrics for maximal age of the human organism and, more specifically, the efforts of geriontology to uncover that data.
So yes, my statement directly addresses yours. I was specifically pointing out that the thing you were raising as a question is a field that is already well studied.
Your entire first paragraph is trivially true and doesn’t address the point at all. We’re in complete agreement that evolution can impact lifespans well beyond the reproductive age. I think that’s old enough that it is discussed at one point by Darwin although I don’t have the citation off the top of my head.
Ah, I see. now. So your point is simply that we know about this issue and that there’s been a lot of study related to it. I don’t see anywhere that would disagree with that claim. I don’t think I said anywhere in my remark anything indicating that the point about evolution pushing problems past the maximal age was at all obscure or original to me. Simply saying that it is a studied issue isn’t sufficient. You need something of the form “this is studied and has been found to be wrong”. But that’s not the case. And it is precisely not the case because there aren’t even now that many really old people. So the essential problem remains: for all we know there could be diseases that show up after around age 100 or older and we haven’t noticed them yet because the sample sizes are small. Moreover, basic evolutionary theory should give us a high prior for such diseases existing because evolution has no reason not make trade offs that benefit at some point before the approximate maximal age in the wild and would cause problems further down the line.