It’s particularly bothersome because I just recently got a very good example of how irrational it makes me. This entire post was originally written before some of the coffee I had kicked in. I was typing up my post, and I read it, and I thought there was a good chance people were going to worry about me being suicidal. And then the caffeine kicked in, and I felt more awake, and I thought “Well, that’s not very descriptive. I’m depressed, but I’m not THAT depressed.” and then I rewrote everything. And then I realized what I was doing, and then I had to rewrite everything to acknowledge both states.
Basically, the knowledge that “I’m entirely irrational while I’m worn out” and “I’m worn out most of the time.” put together, hurts me quite a bit in my Less Wrong parts. Of course, it might just be the availability heuristic. I might actually be less worn out then I remember. But then that brings up “A substantial majority of my recent memories seem to be of me being worn out/irrational.” as it’s own separate problem.
Using your tool analogy, it would best be described as “My tools are dull. Sometimes, they are VERY dull, to the point where I feel like I’m about to snap them. I would like to sharpen my tools, but I don’t usually have the time, because people keep needing those tools NOW, and not later, so I apply chemicals which make them feel sharper, but also feel like they are weakening the blade.” I do have a 10 day long vacation coming up for my birthday, which I am looking forward too substantially. I expect I’ll feel substantially sharper afterwards. But in the meantime… I am my dull tools.
I know how you feel. I get so much stupider and sadder when I’m tired. Have you found any solutions? I’ve tried naps and mid-afternoon exercise and dietary changes. The only thing that’s ever helped in the long term was giving up coffee 3 years ago—the crashes after the caffeine high were making everything so much worse. It took a lot of nail-biting but it was worth it.
On the plus side, at least you recognise its happening to you so you can try and make sure you don’t make important decisions in this state.
Taking time off of work. Thankfully, paid time off is available to me.
On the plus side, at least you recognise its happening to you so you can try and make sure you don’t make important decisions in this state.
Unfortunately, I recognize it’s happening only some of the time. But important decisions seem to happen to be so frequently I sometimes wonder if my importance sensor is calibrated incorrectly.
I think I need to learn to pace myself better. I remember feeling in a very similar mood to this a while ago, reading some pointing out that people in this set of circumstances needed to learn to pace themselves better, and thinking something along the lines “Of course! That’s exactly what I need to do!” and feeling inspired. And now, here I am, weeks later, complaining of a surprisingly similar problem… I think this is evidence I didn’t actually learn the lesson of how to pace myself properly.
Good point. I have a tendency to treat the marathon like a sprint. Any plans for how to improve your pacing?
You’ve inspired me to come up with a mental list of “warning signs” that I should use as an indication I need to drop my hours for a while. (I’m thinking: skipping meals, drops in concentration and finding it harder to keep my temper).
My current plan is to make an effort to relax, specifically by beating a type of vague fear about “But what if I’m slacking off on X and no one is telling me! I’ll (get fired/divorced/socially crushed) I have to work harder on the off hand chance that happens!” that I have periodically, particularly because, I have NO evidence of this fear, which hopefully will make it easier to beat.
All evidence points towards other people letting me know when I get anywhere near a lack of acceptable effort. If people think I’m slacking off, they’ll let me know, like they have in the past. I have no need to work at above the pace I can keep at all times on the off hand chance someone might be quietly fuming about me being lazy and going from everything looks fine to unrecoverable/horrible in seconds.
Related to this, what kicks me in the Less Wrong Parts is that I can be in a bad mood and thinking irrationally, be aware that I am in a bad mood and thinking irrationally, and helplessly watch myself continue to think irrationally.
Moods, for me, are very sticky, and any strategy I develop for extricating myself from a foul mood ends up only working within the context for which it was designed. I feel like if I got a handle on my moods, my demonstrated rationality would skyrocket.
It might help to mention that I am not depressed or even unusually moody. In fact, I’m more even-keeled than average. Maybe this is what makes it feel that much worse when I do find myself in a foul mood. It is an unaccustomed state I don’t know how to deal with.
any strategy I develop for extricating myself from a foul mood ends up only working within the context for which it was designed.
Have you tried designing strategies specifically so that they wouldn’t work in the context where you’re designing them, and then running tests on those? Say, leave a post-it note somewhere visible saying “you are in a bad mood, and will respond to this observation with irrational anger,” then updating the last bit recursively until it’s accurate enough that the tired, stupid version of you is forced to agree, or is at least thrown off-balance enough to break the behavioral pattern.
Fatigue. Large amounts of depressing fatigue.
It’s particularly bothersome because I just recently got a very good example of how irrational it makes me. This entire post was originally written before some of the coffee I had kicked in. I was typing up my post, and I read it, and I thought there was a good chance people were going to worry about me being suicidal. And then the caffeine kicked in, and I felt more awake, and I thought “Well, that’s not very descriptive. I’m depressed, but I’m not THAT depressed.” and then I rewrote everything. And then I realized what I was doing, and then I had to rewrite everything to acknowledge both states.
Basically, the knowledge that “I’m entirely irrational while I’m worn out” and “I’m worn out most of the time.” put together, hurts me quite a bit in my Less Wrong parts. Of course, it might just be the availability heuristic. I might actually be less worn out then I remember. But then that brings up “A substantial majority of my recent memories seem to be of me being worn out/irrational.” as it’s own separate problem.
Using your tool analogy, it would best be described as “My tools are dull. Sometimes, they are VERY dull, to the point where I feel like I’m about to snap them. I would like to sharpen my tools, but I don’t usually have the time, because people keep needing those tools NOW, and not later, so I apply chemicals which make them feel sharper, but also feel like they are weakening the blade.” I do have a 10 day long vacation coming up for my birthday, which I am looking forward too substantially. I expect I’ll feel substantially sharper afterwards. But in the meantime… I am my dull tools.
I know how you feel. I get so much stupider and sadder when I’m tired. Have you found any solutions? I’ve tried naps and mid-afternoon exercise and dietary changes. The only thing that’s ever helped in the long term was giving up coffee 3 years ago—the crashes after the caffeine high were making everything so much worse. It took a lot of nail-biting but it was worth it.
On the plus side, at least you recognise its happening to you so you can try and make sure you don’t make important decisions in this state.
Taking time off of work. Thankfully, paid time off is available to me.
Unfortunately, I recognize it’s happening only some of the time. But important decisions seem to happen to be so frequently I sometimes wonder if my importance sensor is calibrated incorrectly.
I think I need to learn to pace myself better. I remember feeling in a very similar mood to this a while ago, reading some pointing out that people in this set of circumstances needed to learn to pace themselves better, and thinking something along the lines “Of course! That’s exactly what I need to do!” and feeling inspired. And now, here I am, weeks later, complaining of a surprisingly similar problem… I think this is evidence I didn’t actually learn the lesson of how to pace myself properly.
Edit: Based on this link, I apparently had this realization about pacing not even two months ago. http://lesswrong.com/lw/aks/emotional_regulation_part_i_a_problem_summary/5z6l?context=1#5z6l So I’ve updated my earlier comment to “weeks” later, and not months.
Good point. I have a tendency to treat the marathon like a sprint. Any plans for how to improve your pacing?
You’ve inspired me to come up with a mental list of “warning signs” that I should use as an indication I need to drop my hours for a while. (I’m thinking: skipping meals, drops in concentration and finding it harder to keep my temper).
My current plan is to make an effort to relax, specifically by beating a type of vague fear about “But what if I’m slacking off on X and no one is telling me! I’ll (get fired/divorced/socially crushed) I have to work harder on the off hand chance that happens!” that I have periodically, particularly because, I have NO evidence of this fear, which hopefully will make it easier to beat.
All evidence points towards other people letting me know when I get anywhere near a lack of acceptable effort. If people think I’m slacking off, they’ll let me know, like they have in the past. I have no need to work at above the pace I can keep at all times on the off hand chance someone might be quietly fuming about me being lazy and going from everything looks fine to unrecoverable/horrible in seconds.
Related to this, what kicks me in the Less Wrong Parts is that I can be in a bad mood and thinking irrationally, be aware that I am in a bad mood and thinking irrationally, and helplessly watch myself continue to think irrationally.
Moods, for me, are very sticky, and any strategy I develop for extricating myself from a foul mood ends up only working within the context for which it was designed. I feel like if I got a handle on my moods, my demonstrated rationality would skyrocket.
It might help to mention that I am not depressed or even unusually moody. In fact, I’m more even-keeled than average. Maybe this is what makes it feel that much worse when I do find myself in a foul mood. It is an unaccustomed state I don’t know how to deal with.
Have you tried designing strategies specifically so that they wouldn’t work in the context where you’re designing them, and then running tests on those? Say, leave a post-it note somewhere visible saying “you are in a bad mood, and will respond to this observation with irrational anger,” then updating the last bit recursively until it’s accurate enough that the tired, stupid version of you is forced to agree, or is at least thrown off-balance enough to break the behavioral pattern.