Just to be clear, many academics are also educators. So when I say productive, I generally mean productive for both sides; after all, I have many discussions that are hopefully productive but largely in a one-sided way. It’s called class.
I don’t think it’s been that productive to me, because I haven’t learnt anything new or gained a new perspective. Outreach and education do not necessarily represent productive discussion in that sense; I consider the former a duty and the latter a job. There are often surprises and productive discussions, especially when teaching, but that’s because many undergraduate students effectively have a graduate-level understanding, especially in the latter years of their undergraduate degree. Still, it is not the norm.
So really, I don’t think it’s true that philosophical discussion in general is discouraged. I think it’s more fair to say that philosophical discussion is discouraged in online forums where laypeople and physicists both inhabit. There’s nothing particularly deep about that. Physicists are just often a little tired of the kind of philosophical thought that typically comes to laymen, both because typically it is very hard to discuss anything with people who are not used to the precision of language required for scientific discussion, and because so much ink has been spilled over the centuries that most thoughts are not novel, especially when someone does not have a good understanding of the literature. While it might be reasonable to think that it’s good as long as it is productive for one side, I think it’s important to just realise that we’re people too, and I’m not going to be in patient outreach mode 100% of the time on the internet (or even 50%); most of the time I just wish that the few places I can discuss physics with random people aren’t choked up by largely unoriginal philosophy. There’s also the fact that I briefly mentioned, which is that laypeople who visit sciencey places like r/physics (or LW) often really really really really like talking about metaphysics; allowing that would just mean it’s impossible to wade through all the philosophy to find any empirical physics at all.
Basically, I still disagree with this statement:
that the non-philosophical physicists are biased against philosophical discussions among philosophical physicists
I have no encountered such bias, at least towards me, and I am one hell of a rambler. I’m also not particularly senior or anything, so it’s not like people are deferring to me or something.
Just to be clear, many academics are also educators. So when I say productive, I generally mean productive for both sides; after all, I have many discussions that are hopefully productive but largely in a one-sided way. It’s called class.
I don’t think it’s been that productive to me, because I haven’t learnt anything new or gained a new perspective. Outreach and education do not necessarily represent productive discussion in that sense; I consider the former a duty and the latter a job. There are often surprises and productive discussions, especially when teaching, but that’s because many undergraduate students effectively have a graduate-level understanding, especially in the latter years of their undergraduate degree. Still, it is not the norm.
So really, I don’t think it’s true that philosophical discussion in general is discouraged. I think it’s more fair to say that philosophical discussion is discouraged in online forums where laypeople and physicists both inhabit. There’s nothing particularly deep about that. Physicists are just often a little tired of the kind of philosophical thought that typically comes to laymen, both because typically it is very hard to discuss anything with people who are not used to the precision of language required for scientific discussion, and because so much ink has been spilled over the centuries that most thoughts are not novel, especially when someone does not have a good understanding of the literature. While it might be reasonable to think that it’s good as long as it is productive for one side, I think it’s important to just realise that we’re people too, and I’m not going to be in patient outreach mode 100% of the time on the internet (or even 50%); most of the time I just wish that the few places I can discuss physics with random people aren’t choked up by largely unoriginal philosophy. There’s also the fact that I briefly mentioned, which is that laypeople who visit sciencey places like r/physics (or LW) often really really really really like talking about metaphysics; allowing that would just mean it’s impossible to wade through all the philosophy to find any empirical physics at all.
Basically, I still disagree with this statement:
I have no encountered such bias, at least towards me, and I am one hell of a rambler. I’m also not particularly senior or anything, so it’s not like people are deferring to me or something.