This thread is about understanding what objectification is, in order to avoid offensive behaviors, understand why those behaviors are offensive, and better empathize with people who find them offensive.
The fact that people use it as an excuse (what would feminists be excusing?) isn’t really relevant, and dismissing the validity of those feelings (especially on the grounds that they wouldn’t be acting like rationalists to complain) seems counterproductive. On top of that, I still think that understanding how the concept of objectification works would still be important in understanding what to do about it.
This thread is about understanding what objectification is, in order to avoid offensive behaviors, understand why those behaviors are offensive, and better empathize with people who find them offensive.
I don’t think “avoiding offensive behaviors” is a worthy goal. Especially when you consider that a lot people tend to get offended by truth. Should we stop promoting atheism in the name of not offending theists?
This is not just an abstract question. There are currently people using arguments based on privilege (something like ‘western’ privilege in this case) to argue that people should avoid saying or doing anything that would offend Muslims.
There’s a difference between being offensive because someone is fundamentally opposed to something that you’re trying to do, something you are, or something you think, and being offensive simply out of your own ignorance about what people find offensive.
A lot of times people aren’t offended by the truth so much as how its told. And when someone is actually fundamentally offended by my being an atheist, then whatever, I’m not changing that.
Rationalists should win, and that involves not shooting yourself in the foot for no reason.
This thread is about understanding what objectification is, in order to avoid offensive behaviors, understand why those behaviors are offensive, and better empathize with people who find them offensive.
The fact that people use it as an excuse (what would feminists be excusing?) isn’t really relevant, and dismissing the validity of those feelings (especially on the grounds that they wouldn’t be acting like rationalists to complain) seems counterproductive. On top of that, I still think that understanding how the concept of objectification works would still be important in understanding what to do about it.
I don’t think “avoiding offensive behaviors” is a worthy goal. Especially when you consider that a lot people tend to get offended by truth. Should we stop promoting atheism in the name of not offending theists?
This is not just an abstract question. There are currently people using arguments based on privilege (something like ‘western’ privilege in this case) to argue that people should avoid saying or doing anything that would offend Muslims.
I think it is a worthwhile goal.
There’s a difference between being offensive because someone is fundamentally opposed to something that you’re trying to do, something you are, or something you think, and being offensive simply out of your own ignorance about what people find offensive.
A lot of times people aren’t offended by the truth so much as how its told. And when someone is actually fundamentally offended by my being an atheist, then whatever, I’m not changing that.
Rationalists should win, and that involves not shooting yourself in the foot for no reason.