The idea that criminality becomes noncentral—and therefore the idea becomes not worth applying—because it’s approved of by the majority is what King describes above as “difference made legal,” and as such, the basic paradigm of injustice.
I don’t quite follow this. As I understand, MLK says that a “difference made legal” is when a majority enforces laws on a minority that it won’t enforce on itself. The part about enforcing the law on the minority seems critical to that definition.
Whereas, disparate enforcement doesn’t seem like it would necessarily be part of “non-central criminality”. The majority might approve of something that’s technically illegal for anyone, regardless of whether they’re a member of the majority group. In particular, people who approve of MLK’s civil disobedience may approve of the same style of civil disobedience, no matter who does it. Or they may not. It would depend on the person. But disparate enforcement certainly doesn’t seem baked into the idea.
in hindsight I think it was pretty disrespectful of you to use King as the example in the Noncentral Fallacy post.
I think you have some valid points in your comment, but it seems a bit harsh to say that it was disrespectful for Scott not to think of them (if indeed he didn’t) when he made his post. If you only thought of this in hindsight, was it disrespectful of you not to think of it before either? (Sure, we should hold the author of a post to a higher standard than the reader, but still, I think the point you’re making here is actually relatively subtle, in the scheme of things, so it strikes me as an overstatement to call out someone as disrespectful for not thinking of it.)
If you only thought of this in hindsight, was it disrespectful of you not to think of it before either? (Sure, we should hold the author of a post to a higher standard than the reader, but still, I think the point you’re making here is actually relatively subtle, in the scheme of things, so it strikes me as an overstatement to call out someone as disrespectful for not thinking of it.)
I’m not claiming to have been morally pure at the time. I’m just claiming that this was disrespectful to King. I’m not calling for anyone to be punished or shamed here, just trying to describe an unfortunate aspect of the post worth avoiding in the future, because it seems relevant to the point under discussion.
There was probably some unfortunate element of point-scoring in the way I brought it up, for which I am sorry.
What do you think the point of prosecutorial discretion (and other sorts of institutionalized hypocrisy) is, if not disparate enforcement? Does the majority have a coherent agenda that it’s afraid to inform itself about?
I’m not claiming that disparate enforcement does not exist. Just that it doesn’t seem central (heh) to the idea of non-central criminality.
One can have a conception of crime that typically includes theft, assault, etc, and also be in favor of civil disobedience in some cases, while also not being in favor of disparate enforcement. In fact, I would expect that to be the common case.
I guess your last line about the majority’s agenda suggests you think that’s not the common case. Is that right? Perhaps that’s the core of our disagreement.
I don’t quite follow this. As I understand, MLK says that a “difference made legal” is when a majority enforces laws on a minority that it won’t enforce on itself. The part about enforcing the law on the minority seems critical to that definition.
Whereas, disparate enforcement doesn’t seem like it would necessarily be part of “non-central criminality”. The majority might approve of something that’s technically illegal for anyone, regardless of whether they’re a member of the majority group. In particular, people who approve of MLK’s civil disobedience may approve of the same style of civil disobedience, no matter who does it. Or they may not. It would depend on the person. But disparate enforcement certainly doesn’t seem baked into the idea.
I think you have some valid points in your comment, but it seems a bit harsh to say that it was disrespectful for Scott not to think of them (if indeed he didn’t) when he made his post. If you only thought of this in hindsight, was it disrespectful of you not to think of it before either? (Sure, we should hold the author of a post to a higher standard than the reader, but still, I think the point you’re making here is actually relatively subtle, in the scheme of things, so it strikes me as an overstatement to call out someone as disrespectful for not thinking of it.)
I’m not claiming to have been morally pure at the time. I’m just claiming that this was disrespectful to King. I’m not calling for anyone to be punished or shamed here, just trying to describe an unfortunate aspect of the post worth avoiding in the future, because it seems relevant to the point under discussion.
There was probably some unfortunate element of point-scoring in the way I brought it up, for which I am sorry.
Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.
What do you think the point of prosecutorial discretion (and other sorts of institutionalized hypocrisy) is, if not disparate enforcement? Does the majority have a coherent agenda that it’s afraid to inform itself about?
I’m not claiming that disparate enforcement does not exist. Just that it doesn’t seem central (heh) to the idea of non-central criminality.
One can have a conception of crime that typically includes theft, assault, etc, and also be in favor of civil disobedience in some cases, while also not being in favor of disparate enforcement. In fact, I would expect that to be the common case.
I guess your last line about the majority’s agenda suggests you think that’s not the common case. Is that right? Perhaps that’s the core of our disagreement.