I’m an athiest but I never particularly liked the assumption that anyone religious is some kind of idiot or isn’t really a scientist.
A great many physicists in particular were theists. Half the terms you’d find yourself using in physics are the names of theists. Leaving out lots of people with less well known names:
Antoine Becquerel,
Guglielmo Marconi,
Gustav Hertz,
Werner Heisenberg (““The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you””),
Max Planck (was really quite disdainful of atheists),
Victor Hess,
Albert Einstein,
Michael Faraday.
outside of physics even EY’s favorite historical figure expressed similar sentiments to Heisenberg.
Francis Bacon (“It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy brings about man’s mind to religion: for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity.”)
These are not stupid people. These people were real scientists, many with a deep understanding of the fabric of the universe.
This horrible little trope that theists can’t also be good scientists is both demonstrably wrong and little more than unpleasant Applause Lights within sections of the atheist community.
Einstein: “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.”
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
It’s easy to find scientists using the word “God”, but that doesn’t make them theists in the sense that most people making the reference are trying to imply.
Also, it’s hard for even scientists to overcome being indoctrinated in something from the age of 2.
“Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source . . . They are creatures who can’t hear the music of the spheres.”
“In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views.”
Belief in a personal god vs … shall we say a sysadmin who hit enter to set the physics engine running are 2 different things. I’m willing to bet that physicists are over-represented in belief in the latter.
But my main message is that there’s really no call to be a dick about it.
Scientists are perfectly capable of having theistic beliefs while being both extremely intelligent and good scientists.
Anyone claiming that they can’t is ignoring reality, is being irrational and has probably been mind-killed by tribalism.
Scientists are perfectly capable of having theistic beliefs while being both extremely intelligent and good scientists.
In the case of Einstein, they are not theistic beliefs in the sense intended by most of the people who bring them up. You can bet that almost nobody quoting Einstein about God is doing so to get you to think “oh, scientists can believe there is order in the universe”. They want you to think that scientists believe in the kind of God who answers prayers, performs miracles, and gives out moral commandments. Einstein didn’t believe in that.
Yes, I’m sure some of the other tribe will use such quotes very very slightly out of context. That doesn’t make Einstein an atheist or any less of a scientist.
Claiming that Einstein believes in God as most people would think of that term isn’t “slightly” out of context. It’s hugely out of context. That’s why Einstein had to make the “lie” comment in the first place.
That doesn’t make Einstein an atheist
It doesn’t make him an atheist according to the dictionary. it makes him an atheist according to what people actually mean by that.
Who has been assuming “that anyone religious is some kind of idiot or isn’t really a scientist”? Certainly not, e.g., the author of this article; take a look at another he wrote a bit later.
I’m an athiest but I never particularly liked the assumption that anyone religious is some kind of idiot or isn’t really a scientist.
A great many physicists in particular were theists. Half the terms you’d find yourself using in physics are the names of theists. Leaving out lots of people with less well known names:
Antoine Becquerel,
Guglielmo Marconi,
Gustav Hertz,
Werner Heisenberg (““The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you””),
Max Planck (was really quite disdainful of atheists),
Victor Hess,
Albert Einstein,
Michael Faraday.
outside of physics even EY’s favorite historical figure expressed similar sentiments to Heisenberg.
Francis Bacon (“It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy brings about man’s mind to religion: for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity.”)
These are not stupid people. These people were real scientists, many with a deep understanding of the fabric of the universe.
This horrible little trope that theists can’t also be good scientists is both demonstrably wrong and little more than unpleasant Applause Lights within sections of the atheist community.
Another name to add is Robert Aumann.
Einstein: “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.”
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
It’s easy to find scientists using the word “God”, but that doesn’t make them theists in the sense that most people making the reference are trying to imply.
Also, it’s hard for even scientists to overcome being indoctrinated in something from the age of 2.
To add 2 more.
Belief in a personal god vs … shall we say a sysadmin who hit enter to set the physics engine running are 2 different things. I’m willing to bet that physicists are over-represented in belief in the latter.
But my main message is that there’s really no call to be a dick about it.
Scientists are perfectly capable of having theistic beliefs while being both extremely intelligent and good scientists.
Anyone claiming that they can’t is ignoring reality, is being irrational and has probably been mind-killed by tribalism.
In the case of Einstein, they are not theistic beliefs in the sense intended by most of the people who bring them up. You can bet that almost nobody quoting Einstein about God is doing so to get you to think “oh, scientists can believe there is order in the universe”. They want you to think that scientists believe in the kind of God who answers prayers, performs miracles, and gives out moral commandments. Einstein didn’t believe in that.
Yes, I’m sure some of the other tribe will use such quotes very very slightly out of context. That doesn’t make Einstein an atheist or any less of a scientist.
Claiming that Einstein believes in God as most people would think of that term isn’t “slightly” out of context. It’s hugely out of context. That’s why Einstein had to make the “lie” comment in the first place.
It doesn’t make him an atheist according to the dictionary. it makes him an atheist according to what people actually mean by that.
You seem to be awfully confident about what “people” actually mean.
Who has been assuming “that anyone religious is some kind of idiot or isn’t really a scientist”? Certainly not, e.g., the author of this article; take a look at another he wrote a bit later.