I think it’s important to keep in mind a few things about this (or any other ‘weird’ social rule/trick/technology/norm/etc.):
It doesn’t have to be used all the time, let alone frequently, often, or even at all!
It doesn’t have to replace any other form of trading favors (i.e. exchanging social/friendship capital)!
It seems like you’re imagining a world, or even just a single relationship/friendship, where each person is frequently, or always, using cheerful pricing instead of all of the existing social/friendship favor trading forms.
But I’d be surprised if you couldn’t think of any examples where this would work better than the ‘social norms’ you’d otherwise use.
Have you never asked a friend for a favor that involved their professional expertise? That seems like an excellent scenario for this kind of thing – to me anyways. Whereas, under ‘social norms’, this might require considerable exchanges of social/friendship capital, even with the ‘professional’ friend offering a ‘friend discount’, asking them to name a cheerful price signals that you value your friend’s expertise and their time, and at a significant premium too. And more too that you’re willing to solicit a price from them that’s higher than they’re willing to ask for or demand. Regular favors also have the problem of being hard to reject sometimes.
I’d expect this to be even more useful when the favor directly requires some kind of financial cost to the friend as well. I’ve often found that, even when there seems like there might be some kind of mutually beneficial exchange possible, the ‘transaction costs’ of not having a norm for simply paying for things with money can swamp the (potential) positive gains to both parties.
When you pay someone to do things, you briefly become their employer, and that’s not a good kind of relationship to have with a friend.
I find a similar dynamic to be at work even when a friend agrees to do a favor ‘for free’ (i.e. for $0) – their commitment to do the thing is also something like you being their employer, e.g. you can reasonably be upset if they fail to do what they agreed to do.
I also don’t get the sense often that any two friends are perfectly on “even footing”.
But I also pay many people to do things for me where I don’t feel like their employer, e.g. plumbers, delivery people, consultants, contractors. There are lots of trades where even a ‘failure’ in the transaction or exchange being completed doesn’t give me significant latitude to punish the other party.
It also seems important to keep in mind that this whole ‘trick’ only even works if both parties are generally okay with it at all, i.e. asking each other for their cheerful prices and respecting each other’s answers as honest.
Your criticism is very fair too. And I’m generally curious about why people ‘bounce off’ the “rationalist community”. I’m also mostly a lurker, particularly IRL. And I think a big part of that is the kind of thing you described. But I do want to do better at being open to really trying weird ideas (and in real life too!). (I’m pretty weird to my acquaintances, friends, and family already.)
I’ve already found this ‘trick’ pretty useful. I haven’t had anyone offer a (radically) honest answer to my asking them for a cheerful price. I suspect that the people I’ve asked don’t fully understand that the question is sincere and shouldn’t be answered in the context of ‘standard’ social norms. And that’s too bad! I’ve asked because I’m serious and sincere about wanting to remove any obstacles (or as many as possible) to us making a particular exchange.
I think it’s important to keep in mind a few things about this (or any other ‘weird’ social rule/trick/technology/norm/etc.):
It doesn’t have to be used all the time, let alone frequently, often, or even at all!
It doesn’t have to replace any other form of trading favors (i.e. exchanging social/friendship capital)!
It seems like you’re imagining a world, or even just a single relationship/friendship, where each person is frequently, or always, using cheerful pricing instead of all of the existing social/friendship favor trading forms.
But I’d be surprised if you couldn’t think of any examples where this would work better than the ‘social norms’ you’d otherwise use.
Have you never asked a friend for a favor that involved their professional expertise? That seems like an excellent scenario for this kind of thing – to me anyways. Whereas, under ‘social norms’, this might require considerable exchanges of social/friendship capital, even with the ‘professional’ friend offering a ‘friend discount’, asking them to name a cheerful price signals that you value your friend’s expertise and their time, and at a significant premium too. And more too that you’re willing to solicit a price from them that’s higher than they’re willing to ask for or demand. Regular favors also have the problem of being hard to reject sometimes.
I’d expect this to be even more useful when the favor directly requires some kind of financial cost to the friend as well. I’ve often found that, even when there seems like there might be some kind of mutually beneficial exchange possible, the ‘transaction costs’ of not having a norm for simply paying for things with money can swamp the (potential) positive gains to both parties.
I find a similar dynamic to be at work even when a friend agrees to do a favor ‘for free’ (i.e. for $0) – their commitment to do the thing is also something like you being their employer, e.g. you can reasonably be upset if they fail to do what they agreed to do.
I also don’t get the sense often that any two friends are perfectly on “even footing”.
But I also pay many people to do things for me where I don’t feel like their employer, e.g. plumbers, delivery people, consultants, contractors. There are lots of trades where even a ‘failure’ in the transaction or exchange being completed doesn’t give me significant latitude to punish the other party.
It also seems important to keep in mind that this whole ‘trick’ only even works if both parties are generally okay with it at all, i.e. asking each other for their cheerful prices and respecting each other’s answers as honest.
This is a fair criticism of my criticism.
I’m glad you thought so!
Your criticism is very fair too. And I’m generally curious about why people ‘bounce off’ the “rationalist community”. I’m also mostly a lurker, particularly IRL. And I think a big part of that is the kind of thing you described. But I do want to do better at being open to really trying weird ideas (and in real life too!). (I’m pretty weird to my acquaintances, friends, and family already.)
I’ve already found this ‘trick’ pretty useful. I haven’t had anyone offer a (radically) honest answer to my asking them for a cheerful price. I suspect that the people I’ve asked don’t fully understand that the question is sincere and shouldn’t be answered in the context of ‘standard’ social norms. And that’s too bad! I’ve asked because I’m serious and sincere about wanting to remove any obstacles (or as many as possible) to us making a particular exchange.