You are of course right, it’s not like the other three. One of the differences is that it is a perceived advantage, not a real one. (Like stereotypes of Asians being good at math, so hey Wei, can you calculate this tip for us?)
But that’s not the reason I included it. The reason I included it is because it helps illustrate the issue with social obligations to say “Yes”; many women do in fact feel obligated to have sex with some guys, and guys complaining about rejection, even if they don’t intend it, makes some women feel uncomfortably obligated to say “Yes” more frequently. If you don’t grasp the dynamic behind the sense of advantage, people who react very defensively to these complaints—as if they were demands that women be* less picky about sex—make absolutely no sense; they seem to be denying the humanity of the person complaining, denying their right to be unhappy about their own situation.
It’s not the only example, but it is the one I found most… instructive, as an explanation, and given that at least one of them was cause for a total psychological meltdown for me (which is part of why I’ve been largely quiet here for the past few weeks, and which I’m still not fully over), I think maybe sharing some of the examples freely might not be a wise move. I don’t know that everybody would find any of them the crippling emotional basilisk I found the one, but I have no effective means of judging that.
The opportunity cost to a tall person of being asked to reach something for a short person is generally quite small. This remains true even if there are many short people who require such assistance.
The cost to a woman of having sex with every man who asks, in terms of pregnancy risk, disease risk, and status loss from being perceived as promiscuous is rather more significant.
I can see why an objectivist would try to include them in the same reference class; a utilitarian, on the other hand, doesn’t have to reach far to find reasons not to.
OrphanWilde also made an example about writing Web pages, whose opportunity cost is much higher than for reaching stuff but much lower than for having sex, so there might be more of a continuum than you realize.
I can point to a conversation on these forums where a woman stated she had pity sex with guys, for pretty much the reasons I laid out—that’s what pity sex -is-, it’s having sex with someone out of that sense of obligation arising from a perceived social advantage. It’s not like I took an entirely fictitious example and presented it as an analogue of real-world things, they’re all real-world things, and they’re not the only ones.
You’re stating that they’re different, but that’s from an objective outside perspective; from the inside obligation feels like obligation, regardless of its reasonableness.
It depends on who exactly the person feeling the obligation is. For example, I definitely don’t feel obligated to write Web pages for free for anyone who asks regardless of how busy I am.
It depends on who exactly the person is. For example, I haven’t felt obligated to write Web pages (or similar) for people for at least a decade (though this doesn’t mean I never do that as a favour), and when people (well, actually almost only ever happens with a few people¹) try to make me feel that way, I deliberately start giving “if you insist, I will give a tantrum” vibes.
Yes, I realize that the correct solution normally is to get the hell away from those people, but when they share 50% of my genes that’s not viable.
You are of course right, it’s not like the other three. One of the differences is that it is a perceived advantage, not a real one. (Like stereotypes of Asians being good at math, so hey Wei, can you calculate this tip for us?)
But that’s not the reason I included it. The reason I included it is because it helps illustrate the issue with social obligations to say “Yes”; many women do in fact feel obligated to have sex with some guys, and guys complaining about rejection, even if they don’t intend it, makes some women feel uncomfortably obligated to say “Yes” more frequently. If you don’t grasp the dynamic behind the sense of advantage, people who react very defensively to these complaints—as if they were demands that women be* less picky about sex—make absolutely no sense; they seem to be denying the humanity of the person complaining, denying their right to be unhappy about their own situation.
It’s not the only example, but it is the one I found most… instructive, as an explanation, and given that at least one of them was cause for a total psychological meltdown for me (which is part of why I’ve been largely quiet here for the past few weeks, and which I’m still not fully over), I think maybe sharing some of the examples freely might not be a wise move. I don’t know that everybody would find any of them the crippling emotional basilisk I found the one, but I have no effective means of judging that.
The opportunity cost to a tall person of being asked to reach something for a short person is generally quite small. This remains true even if there are many short people who require such assistance.
The cost to a woman of having sex with every man who asks, in terms of pregnancy risk, disease risk, and status loss from being perceived as promiscuous is rather more significant.
I can see why an objectivist would try to include them in the same reference class; a utilitarian, on the other hand, doesn’t have to reach far to find reasons not to.
OrphanWilde also made an example about writing Web pages, whose opportunity cost is much higher than for reaching stuff but much lower than for having sex, so there might be more of a continuum than you realize.
I can point to a conversation on these forums where a woman stated she had pity sex with guys, for pretty much the reasons I laid out—that’s what pity sex -is-, it’s having sex with someone out of that sense of obligation arising from a perceived social advantage. It’s not like I took an entirely fictitious example and presented it as an analogue of real-world things, they’re all real-world things, and they’re not the only ones.
You’re stating that they’re different, but that’s from an objective outside perspective; from the inside obligation feels like obligation, regardless of its reasonableness.
It depends on who exactly the person feeling the obligation is. For example, I definitely don’t feel obligated to write Web pages for free for anyone who asks regardless of how busy I am.
It depends on who exactly the person is. For example, I haven’t felt obligated to write Web pages (or similar) for people for at least a decade (though this doesn’t mean I never do that as a favour), and when people (well, actually almost only ever happens with a few people¹) try to make me feel that way, I deliberately start giving “if you insist, I will give a tantrum” vibes.
Yes, I realize that the correct solution normally is to get the hell away from those people, but when they share 50% of my genes that’s not viable.