I’m missing something here. Why would I want a bigger liver? I mean, from this account, liver size is obviously something that the body is controlling. You list various interventions to make it bigger, which predictably have bad effects. But why would I want to change something that my body is already managing perfectly well?
The only reason I could find was this:
Athletes have higher resting metabolic rates than non-athletes; their bodies use more energy, even when they’re not exercising. That means they can eat more without getting fat.
Is that it? Why not just[1]...not eat more? These are athletes. They eat to sustain themselves in the pursuit of athletic excellence. They can already “just” not eat more. If they couldn’t, they would not be athletes.
I agree there are people, notably Eliezer, who can’t “just” not eat more without being as unable to function as if they were starving. I can’t see a larger liver burning up more energy helping with that.
If anyone’s hackles rise at a sentence beginning “Why not just—”, you’re quite right. No problem can be solved by “just”...whatever it is. If it could, it would not be a problem.
One reason is just that eating food is enjoyable. I limit the amount of food I eat to stay within a healthy range, but if I could increase that amount while staying healthy, I could enjoy that excess.
I think there are two aspects to the enjoyment of food. One is related to satiety. I enjoy the feeling of sating my appetite, and failing to sate it leaves me with te negative experience of craving food (negative if I don’t satisfy those cravings.
But the other aspect is just the enjoyment of eating each individual bite of food. Not the separate enjoyment of sating my appetite, but just the experience of eating.*
When I was younger and much more physically active I ate very large amounts of food. I miss being able to do that. I’m just as sated now with the much smaller portions I eat, but eating a small breakfast instead of a large one is a different experience.
This probably doesn’t justify some sort of risky intervention in increasing liver size. Food is enjoyable, but so are a lot of other things in life. But shifting to a higher protien diet seems like the kind of safe intervention, potentially even also healthier in other respects, that, if it has the side effect of being able to eat a little more food, could improve quality of life with minimal other costs. Potential costs I see are related to the price of protein relative to other sources of nutrition, the cost of additional food (if the point is being able to eat more, you’ve got spend money for that excess), and, depending on one’s moral views, something related to the source of the protien being added.
*I think Kahneman’s remembering vs. expereincing selves adds some confusion here as well. When we remember a meal we don’t necessarily remember the enjoyment we got from every bite, but probably put more weight on the feeling of satiety and the peak experience (how good did it taste at its best?). But the experiencing self experiences every bite. How much you want to weight the remembering vs. experiencing self is a philosophical issue, but I just want to note that it comes up here.
One reason is just that eating food is enjoyable. I limit the amount of food I eat to stay within a healthy range, but if I could increase that amount while staying healthy, I could enjoy that excess.
Ah. I eat to sustain myself. Given that I must, I make it reasonably enjoyable, but it’s a chore I’d just as soon do without.
I’m also very curious about whether you get any other benefits from a larger liver other than a higher RMR. Especially because higher RMR isn’t necessarily good for longevity, and neither is having more liver cells (more opportunities to get cancer). Please tell me if I’m wrong about any of this.
I mean, that increased food consumption goes into increased physical energy; I’d honestly recommend drugs over liver-enlargement for that purpose, but surplus physical energy is a wonderful thing.
It is indeed. I imagine the causal connections differently. Strenuous movement cultivates the energy; the body demands food as necessary to refuel. I don’t get high energy simply from eating.
I’m missing something here. Why would I want a bigger liver? I mean, from this account, liver size is obviously something that the body is controlling. You list various interventions to make it bigger, which predictably have bad effects. But why would I want to change something that my body is already managing perfectly well?
The only reason I could find was this:
Is that it? Why not just[1]...not eat more? These are athletes. They eat to sustain themselves in the pursuit of athletic excellence. They can already “just” not eat more. If they couldn’t, they would not be athletes.
I agree there are people, notably Eliezer, who can’t “just” not eat more without being as unable to function as if they were starving. I can’t see a larger liver burning up more energy helping with that.
If anyone’s hackles rise at a sentence beginning “Why not just—”, you’re quite right. No problem can be solved by “just”...whatever it is. If it could, it would not be a problem.
One reason is just that eating food is enjoyable. I limit the amount of food I eat to stay within a healthy range, but if I could increase that amount while staying healthy, I could enjoy that excess.
I think there are two aspects to the enjoyment of food. One is related to satiety. I enjoy the feeling of sating my appetite, and failing to sate it leaves me with te negative experience of craving food (negative if I don’t satisfy those cravings.
But the other aspect is just the enjoyment of eating each individual bite of food. Not the separate enjoyment of sating my appetite, but just the experience of eating.*
When I was younger and much more physically active I ate very large amounts of food. I miss being able to do that. I’m just as sated now with the much smaller portions I eat, but eating a small breakfast instead of a large one is a different experience.
This probably doesn’t justify some sort of risky intervention in increasing liver size. Food is enjoyable, but so are a lot of other things in life. But shifting to a higher protien diet seems like the kind of safe intervention, potentially even also healthier in other respects, that, if it has the side effect of being able to eat a little more food, could improve quality of life with minimal other costs. Potential costs I see are related to the price of protein relative to other sources of nutrition, the cost of additional food (if the point is being able to eat more, you’ve got spend money for that excess), and, depending on one’s moral views, something related to the source of the protien being added.
*I think Kahneman’s remembering vs. expereincing selves adds some confusion here as well. When we remember a meal we don’t necessarily remember the enjoyment we got from every bite, but probably put more weight on the feeling of satiety and the peak experience (how good did it taste at its best?). But the experiencing self experiences every bite. How much you want to weight the remembering vs. experiencing self is a philosophical issue, but I just want to note that it comes up here.
Ah. I eat to sustain myself. Given that I must, I make it reasonably enjoyable, but it’s a chore I’d just as soon do without.
Thank you so much.
Presumably because there’s a hope that having a larger liver could help people lose weight, which is something a lot of people struggle to do?
I’m also very curious about whether you get any other benefits from a larger liver other than a higher RMR. Especially because higher RMR isn’t necessarily good for longevity, and neither is having more liver cells (more opportunities to get cancer). Please tell me if I’m wrong about any of this.
I mean, that increased food consumption goes into increased physical energy; I’d honestly recommend drugs over liver-enlargement for that purpose, but surplus physical energy is a wonderful thing.
It is indeed. I imagine the causal connections differently. Strenuous movement cultivates the energy; the body demands food as necessary to refuel. I don’t get high energy simply from eating.