By way of narrowing down this sense, which I think I share, if it’s the same sense: leaving out the information from Scott’s comment about a MIRI-opposed person who is advocating psychedelic use and causing psychotic breaks in people, and particularly this person talks about MIRI’s attempts to have any internal info compartments as a terrible dark symptom of greater social control that you need to jailbreak away from using psychedelics, and then those people have psychotic breaks—leaving out this info seems to be not something you’d do in a neutrally intended post written from a place of grave concern about community dynamics. It’s taking the Leverage affair and trying to use it to make a point, and only including the info that would make that point, and leaving out info that would distract from that point. And I’m not going to posture like that’s terribly bad inhuman behavior, but we can see it and it’s okay to admit to ourselves that we see it.
And it’s also okay for somebody to think that the original Leverage affair needed to be discussed on its own terms, and not be carefully reframed in exactly the right way to make a point about a higher-profile group the author wanted to discuss instead; or to think that Leverage did a clearly bad thing, and we need to have norms against that clearly bad thing and finish up on making those norms before it’s proper for anyone to reframe the issue as really being about a less clear bad thing somewhere higher-profile; and then this post is going against that and it’s okay for them to be unhappy about that part.
not something you’d do in a neutrally intended post written from a place of grave concern about community dynamics
I’m not going to posture like that’s terribly bad inhuman behavior, but we can see it and it’s okay to admit to ourselves that we see it
These have the tone of allusions to some sort of accusation, but as far as I can tell you’re not actually accusing Jessica of any transgression here, just saying that her post was not “neutrally intended,” which—what would that mean? A post where Gricean implicature was not relevant?
Can you clarify whether you meant to suggest Jessica was doing some specific harmful thing here or whether this tone is unendorsed?
Okay, sure. If what Scott says is true, and it matches my recollections of things I heard earlier—though I can attest to very little of it of my direct observation—then it seems like this post was written with knowledge of things that would make the overall story arc it showed, look very different, and those things were deliberately omitted. This is more manipulation than I myself would personally consider okay to use in a situation like this one, though I am ever mindful of Automatic Norms and the privilege of being more verbally facile than others in which facts I can include but still make my own points.
By way of narrowing down this sense, which I think I share, if it’s the same sense: leaving out the information from Scott’s comment about a MIRI-opposed person who is advocating psychedelic use and causing psychotic breaks in people, and particularly this person talks about MIRI’s attempts to have any internal info compartments as a terrible dark symptom of greater social control that you need to jailbreak away from using psychedelics, and then those people have psychotic breaks—leaving out this info seems to be not something you’d do in a neutrally intended post written from a place of grave concern about community dynamics. It’s taking the Leverage affair and trying to use it to make a point, and only including the info that would make that point, and leaving out info that would distract from that point. And I’m not going to posture like that’s terribly bad inhuman behavior, but we can see it and it’s okay to admit to ourselves that we see it.
And it’s also okay for somebody to think that the original Leverage affair needed to be discussed on its own terms, and not be carefully reframed in exactly the right way to make a point about a higher-profile group the author wanted to discuss instead; or to think that Leverage did a clearly bad thing, and we need to have norms against that clearly bad thing and finish up on making those norms before it’s proper for anyone to reframe the issue as really being about a less clear bad thing somewhere higher-profile; and then this post is going against that and it’s okay for them to be unhappy about that part.
These have the tone of allusions to some sort of accusation, but as far as I can tell you’re not actually accusing Jessica of any transgression here, just saying that her post was not “neutrally intended,” which—what would that mean? A post where Gricean implicature was not relevant?
Can you clarify whether you meant to suggest Jessica was doing some specific harmful thing here or whether this tone is unendorsed?
Okay, sure. If what Scott says is true, and it matches my recollections of things I heard earlier—though I can attest to very little of it of my direct observation—then it seems like this post was written with knowledge of things that would make the overall story arc it showed, look very different, and those things were deliberately omitted. This is more manipulation than I myself would personally consider okay to use in a situation like this one, though I am ever mindful of Automatic Norms and the privilege of being more verbally facile than others in which facts I can include but still make my own points.
See Zack’s reply here and mine here. Overall I didn’t think the amount of responsibility was high enough for this to be worth mentioning.