Umm To relay a trad Buddhist perspective, you’re not (traditionally) supposed to make a full-blown attempt for ‘enlightenment’ or ‘insight’ until you’ve spent a fairly extensive time working on personal ethics & discipline. I think an unnamed additional step is to establish your basic needs, like good community, health, food, shelter, etc. It’s also recommended that you avoid drugs, alcohol, and even sex.
There’s also an important sense I get from trad Buddhism, which is: If you hold a nihilistic view, things will go sideways. A subtle example of nihilism is the sense that “It doesn’t matter what I do or think because it’s relatively inconsequential in the scheme of things, so whatever.” or a deeper hidden sense of “It doesn’t really matter if everyone dies.” or “I feel it might be better if I just stopped existing?” or “I can think whatever I want inside my own head, including extensive montages of murder and rape, because it doesn’t really affect anything.”
These views seem not uncommon among modern people, and subtler forms seem very common. Afaict from reading biographies, modern people have more trouble with nihilistic or self-hating views like these than people who grew up in e.g. Thai forest villages 100+ years ago. Because of this, I recommend a lot more caution with meditation and similar things.
Modern westerners and their flavors of non-trad Buddhism is more Wild West. Maybe not surprising. They don’t really like the traditional, renunciate, careful, slow aspects. They add in the drugs and the spirit of ‘move fast, break things’. They get addicted to the sense of progress and acceleration.
I would… personally… warn against that. Although… it’s complicated, since it does seem helpful to various people. People also seem really into their drugs, sex, and alcohol. ^_^;
I get … mildly squicked out by people trying to get enlightened using lots of drugs. I get squicked out if people seem pressured or anxious about trying to get enlightened asap. I have good friends who are in these categories. I am not qualified to know what’s truly good for them. But I’d personally feel a bit more comfortable if they eventually moved off of drug use.
While I personally strive for enlightenment in my own meditation practice at MAPLE, I am coming to realize the folly of “trying to make it happen as quickly as possible.” I am very wary of using drugs as a way to try to speed up “the process”. I am also wary of using pressure or brute force as a way to speed up “the process”. Seems like a form of hubris.
Rationalists seem… susceptible?… to hubris. :/ and… nihilism :\ :/ :\ I consider myself an example. !
I feel tempted to mostly agree with Eliezer here…
Umm To relay a trad Buddhist perspective, you’re not (traditionally) supposed to make a full-blown attempt for ‘enlightenment’ or ‘insight’ until you’ve spent a fairly extensive time working on personal ethics & discipline. I think an unnamed additional step is to establish your basic needs, like good community, health, food, shelter, etc. It’s also recommended that you avoid drugs, alcohol, and even sex.
There’s also an important sense I get from trad Buddhism, which is: If you hold a nihilistic view, things will go sideways. A subtle example of nihilism is the sense that “It doesn’t matter what I do or think because it’s relatively inconsequential in the scheme of things, so whatever.” or a deeper hidden sense of “It doesn’t really matter if everyone dies.” or “I feel it might be better if I just stopped existing?” or “I can think whatever I want inside my own head, including extensive montages of murder and rape, because it doesn’t really affect anything.”
These views seem not uncommon among modern people, and subtler forms seem very common. Afaict from reading biographies, modern people have more trouble with nihilistic or self-hating views like these than people who grew up in e.g. Thai forest villages 100+ years ago. Because of this, I recommend a lot more caution with meditation and similar things.
Modern westerners and their flavors of non-trad Buddhism is more Wild West. Maybe not surprising. They don’t really like the traditional, renunciate, careful, slow aspects. They add in the drugs and the spirit of ‘move fast, break things’. They get addicted to the sense of progress and acceleration.
I would… personally… warn against that. Although… it’s complicated, since it does seem helpful to various people. People also seem really into their drugs, sex, and alcohol. ^_^;
I get … mildly squicked out by people trying to get enlightened using lots of drugs. I get squicked out if people seem pressured or anxious about trying to get enlightened asap. I have good friends who are in these categories. I am not qualified to know what’s truly good for them. But I’d personally feel a bit more comfortable if they eventually moved off of drug use.
While I personally strive for enlightenment in my own meditation practice at MAPLE, I am coming to realize the folly of “trying to make it happen as quickly as possible.” I am very wary of using drugs as a way to try to speed up “the process”. I am also wary of using pressure or brute force as a way to speed up “the process”. Seems like a form of hubris.
Rationalists seem… susceptible?… to hubris. :/ and… nihilism :\ :/ :\
I consider myself an example. !