I’m also about ready to propose a similar no-such-group policy on ‘woo’, tarot-reading, supernaturalism only oh no it’s not really supernaturalism I’m just doing tarot readings as a way to help myself think, etc.
Hmm. I can’t tell if the second half is supposed to be pointing at my position on Tarot, or the thing that’s pretending to be my position but is actually confused?
Like, I think the hitrate for ‘woo’ is pretty low, and so I spend less time dredging there than I do other places which are more promising, but also I am not ashamed of the things that I’ve noticed that do seem like hits there. Like, I haven’t delivered on my IOU to explain ‘authenticity’ yet, but I think Circling is actually a step above practices that look superficially similar in a way we could understand rigorously, even if Circling is in a reference class that is quite high in woo, and many Circlers like the flavor of woo.
That said, I could also see an argument that’s like “look, we really have to implement rules like this at a very simple level or they will get bent to hell, and it’s higher EV to not let in woo.”
Would it be acceptable to regard practices like self-reflective tarot and circling and other woo-adjacent stuff as art rather than an attempt at rationality? I think it is a danger sign when people are claiming those highly introspective and personal activities as part of their aspiring to rationality. Can we just do art and personal emotional and creative discovery and not claim that it’s directly part of the rationalist project?
I mean, I also do things that I would consider ‘art’ that I think are distinct from rationality. But, like, just like I wouldn’t really consider ‘meditation’ an art project instead of ‘inner work’ or ‘learning how to think’ or w/e, I wouldn’t really consider Circling an art project instead of those things.
I would consider meditation and circling to have the same relationship to “discovering the truth” as art. The insights can be real and profound but are less rigorous and much more personal.
I think we need more than two categories here. We can’t allocate credit for input, only output. People can learn things by carefully observing stuff, but we shouldn’t get to mint social capital as rationalists for hours meditating any more than Darwin’s reputation should depend directly on time spent thinking about tortoises.
Discerning investors might profit by recognizing leading indicators of high productivity, but that only works if incentives are aligned, which means, eventually, objective tests. In hindsight it seems very unfortunate that MIRI was not mostly funded by relevant-to-its-expertise prediction markets.
Good art seems like it should make people sexy, not credible.
Hmm. I can’t tell if the second half is supposed to be pointing at my position on Tarot, or the thing that’s pretending to be my position but is actually confused?
Like, I think the hitrate for ‘woo’ is pretty low, and so I spend less time dredging there than I do other places which are more promising, but also I am not ashamed of the things that I’ve noticed that do seem like hits there. Like, I haven’t delivered on my IOU to explain ‘authenticity’ yet, but I think Circling is actually a step above practices that look superficially similar in a way we could understand rigorously, even if Circling is in a reference class that is quite high in woo, and many Circlers like the flavor of woo.
That said, I could also see an argument that’s like “look, we really have to implement rules like this at a very simple level or they will get bent to hell, and it’s higher EV to not let in woo.”
Would it be acceptable to regard practices like self-reflective tarot and circling and other woo-adjacent stuff as art rather than an attempt at rationality? I think it is a danger sign when people are claiming those highly introspective and personal activities as part of their aspiring to rationality. Can we just do art and personal emotional and creative discovery and not claim that it’s directly part of the rationalist project?
I mean, I also do things that I would consider ‘art’ that I think are distinct from rationality. But, like, just like I wouldn’t really consider ‘meditation’ an art project instead of ‘inner work’ or ‘learning how to think’ or w/e, I wouldn’t really consider Circling an art project instead of those things.
I would consider meditation and circling to have the same relationship to “discovering the truth” as art. The insights can be real and profound but are less rigorous and much more personal.
I think we need more than two categories here. We can’t allocate credit for input, only output. People can learn things by carefully observing stuff, but we shouldn’t get to mint social capital as rationalists for hours meditating any more than Darwin’s reputation should depend directly on time spent thinking about tortoises.
Discerning investors might profit by recognizing leading indicators of high productivity, but that only works if incentives are aligned, which means, eventually, objective tests. In hindsight it seems very unfortunate that MIRI was not mostly funded by relevant-to-its-expertise prediction markets.
Good art seems like it should make people sexy, not credible.