I am an X. X’s always do X things. I have to do x things
Why can’t people make calculations in real time rather than inserting a pre-made stand in?
For example:
Problem: a circle of paper with a diameter of 3cm is required
Answer: grab an already constructed circle and hope it fits
or
Answer: note the size requirement for the paper and construct one out of new material so it fits perfectly
which is like
Problem: A man is fleeing from a large mob and hides in a location you know. The mob catches up and ask if you seen him
Answer: You reach for a pre-fab self-identity responce such as “I support underdogs” so lie to the mob or “I’m always helpful to everyone i speak to” so you inform the mob
or
Answer: You don’t assume you will do anything other than break out your mental calculator and do the math. This will also likely include trying to find out more data to render the most accurate answer compared to the true reality.
I thought losing the concept of “I am X so I do Y” and replacing it for “the world in front of me is current 1+1 so 2 is my answer” was part of growing up. That is to say I don’t dig in to my pockets for change when I see a homeless person because “I think this is what X would do” but because “I have money i can spare et etc etc etc (insert rationalized equation here)”.
I too have grown up not liking to dance. I could say “I don’t like to dance”- but that would only be a description of my behavior and experiences up until that point in time. If I did dance- I would not feel shame. I would not say “Dan’s self-image doesn’t dance so i’m not being Dan”. If I did start out saying “I don’t like to dance” but did so and liked it I would not say “I should not like this because I am Dan (and Dan doesn’t dance)”- rather I would update my model of reality to say something like “In the past I have not enjoyed or pursued dancing but I have discovered it is enjoyable in the present”. If I was to ask myself if I would do it again I wouldn’t ask “Would Dan dance?” I would ask “What do I gain vs what do I lose by dancing?”. Again it will be a question of utility return rather than a concrete formula of “X does X things”.
I think I learnt this lesson best from music. When I was growing up music was a lot more sectarian than it seems now. The statement “He likes Rap music” was synonymous with “He hates Metal music”. Honestly I don’t know about where you all live but this was literally true where I was. But even wihle really young it made me question how one statement meant the other. Why couldn’t people like both? I realized it had nothing to do with music and sound waves but was just a stupid cultural bias and I was better off letting my listening experience create the decision since it would be grounded more with reality than a blanket stereo-type.
To give another example of what i’m talking about
I don’t like racism. But when I say that, i’m not talking about “Dan’s image is incompatible with racism”. I’m talking about the simple maths that returns the value “Racism = bad”. How that maths goes and how i define “bad” is a totally different story- but I can tell you it’s one that is totally void of my own being and therefore any self image i could lump on top.
In other words i’m saying that whether I exist or not racism is like 1+1=2 and for me to “like” it (or think it’s not “bad”) would be to say 1+1=3 (ie nonsense and not logical). I don’t need to think i’m a good person to make a judgement on what is “right”- I just need a calculator and a logic that scans the numbers for bias and inconsistencies. I don’t need to think anything about myself- my only task is to build a map that represents the territory accurately. I guess luckily my interpretation of the world says that what is “right and logical” is also “moral and just”- so I don’t have to worry about if my utility gain is “evil” since it’s only possible for it to go up if it’s “good”.
If I was to submit to the ideology of everyone needing or having a self-identity then it would be very rudimentary. A simple statement saying like “I am an agent which attempts to maximize utility” is enough to cover it. That tells me to “do the math”- but doesn’t tell me what to do. It’s enough to let me know I exist but isn’t a pre-fabricated one size fits all play block.
Self-image to me seems like a biased filter to pass data through. I don’t need to ask what I would do- the simple answer is “I do what I have already have and am yet to do” -and that answer is sufficient enough to not bottleneck my interpretation of the world and subsequent actions.
The whole problem with being human is biases pop up everywhere so the only sane thing to do is to ask “why?” often. “Dan does Dan things”- why? Um i dunno...because he’s Dan?
You need real reasons why you think/do things rather than stereo types that could of come from anywhere.
This is a straw-manning of the use of narrative, i.e. over-using it. Try steel-manning it, which is the point of the post. For example, take this observation:
Self-image to me seems like a biased filter to pass data through.
Indeed. And biased filters are sometimes good; e.g. google “bias variance tradeoff”, or read it about it here or here. In particular, biased estimators are often more accurate than unbiased onces due to having less variance. I think use of narrative schema and other thick concepts as literal examples of this. The trick is using them wisely, instead of always or never.
Why can’t people make calculations in real time rather than inserting a pre-made stand in?
Oftentimes, nothing has changed in the relevant period. Recomputing from scratch which diet is best for me- including rereading all of the relevant research- every time I think about food seems like a terrible idea. Looking at the research, picking a diet for myself, and saying “this is me until I re-evaluate in three months,” seems like a good idea.
You don’t have to calculate every single factor from scratch.
You can use “this is what i ate yesterday” and “last week this diet made me feel good” rather than start from scratch.
For example you can take for given that you don’t have to calculate if you are still on earth or not to decide what to eat.
Using data of recalled past experience and keeping already collected data such as food nutrition is ALOT different then asking “What would X do?”. Even while using this stored data, as you start to apply it you can ask a quick question of how reliable the data was. Did you study it in a book? If so, you can probably summarize the time length wasn’t long enough that information would of changed and that maybe the source was reliable from the start so doesn’t need re-evaluating yet.
In another example if you lived a sheltered life where you grew up and carrots were the only food source you would say “My self image is a carrot eater. When I am hungry, I eat carrots”. Presented with a new variety all the sudden if you asked your self image for help rather than calculate a new answer then you’ll continue to eat carrots forever and nothing else. Especially if you came upon the self image of an exclusive carrot eater (just because there was nothing else at the time when you made your image)- in which case you might even feel embarrassed or like you are failing yourself if you eat something else because your self image will say “but I only eat carrots...yet i’m eating banana… so i’m not being myself… oh dear”.
Honestly this IS how i think and I DO have time to make these calculations.
I really wouldn’t say I do anything other than “try to maximize utility”- I don’t need to constrain myself to any action other than that. Yes I can describe what I have liked in the past- but that doesn’t prescribe what I will do in the future- instead it is used as height weight data during my next decision.
My point was though that even using this stored data is much better than the blanket question of “What would my self-image do?”. Asking what your set self-image would do will only yield 1 answer continuously and disallow further growth and change.
Asking what your set self-image would do will only yield 1 answer continuously and disallow further growth and change.
This post is about deliberately choosing your self-image, with the implication that it can and should change sometimes.
Notice that choosing between standing policies is actually different from separately choosing independent actions, and those two situations can lead to different choices.
Self image is just another word for bias.
I am an X. X’s always do X things. I have to do x things
Why can’t people make calculations in real time rather than inserting a pre-made stand in? For example: Problem: a circle of paper with a diameter of 3cm is required Answer: grab an already constructed circle and hope it fits or Answer: note the size requirement for the paper and construct one out of new material so it fits perfectly
which is like
Problem: A man is fleeing from a large mob and hides in a location you know. The mob catches up and ask if you seen him Answer: You reach for a pre-fab self-identity responce such as “I support underdogs” so lie to the mob or “I’m always helpful to everyone i speak to” so you inform the mob or Answer: You don’t assume you will do anything other than break out your mental calculator and do the math. This will also likely include trying to find out more data to render the most accurate answer compared to the true reality.
I thought losing the concept of “I am X so I do Y” and replacing it for “the world in front of me is current 1+1 so 2 is my answer” was part of growing up. That is to say I don’t dig in to my pockets for change when I see a homeless person because “I think this is what X would do” but because “I have money i can spare et etc etc etc (insert rationalized equation here)”.
I too have grown up not liking to dance. I could say “I don’t like to dance”- but that would only be a description of my behavior and experiences up until that point in time. If I did dance- I would not feel shame. I would not say “Dan’s self-image doesn’t dance so i’m not being Dan”. If I did start out saying “I don’t like to dance” but did so and liked it I would not say “I should not like this because I am Dan (and Dan doesn’t dance)”- rather I would update my model of reality to say something like “In the past I have not enjoyed or pursued dancing but I have discovered it is enjoyable in the present”. If I was to ask myself if I would do it again I wouldn’t ask “Would Dan dance?” I would ask “What do I gain vs what do I lose by dancing?”. Again it will be a question of utility return rather than a concrete formula of “X does X things”. I think I learnt this lesson best from music. When I was growing up music was a lot more sectarian than it seems now. The statement “He likes Rap music” was synonymous with “He hates Metal music”. Honestly I don’t know about where you all live but this was literally true where I was. But even wihle really young it made me question how one statement meant the other. Why couldn’t people like both? I realized it had nothing to do with music and sound waves but was just a stupid cultural bias and I was better off letting my listening experience create the decision since it would be grounded more with reality than a blanket stereo-type.
To give another example of what i’m talking about
I don’t like racism. But when I say that, i’m not talking about “Dan’s image is incompatible with racism”. I’m talking about the simple maths that returns the value “Racism = bad”. How that maths goes and how i define “bad” is a totally different story- but I can tell you it’s one that is totally void of my own being and therefore any self image i could lump on top. In other words i’m saying that whether I exist or not racism is like 1+1=2 and for me to “like” it (or think it’s not “bad”) would be to say 1+1=3 (ie nonsense and not logical). I don’t need to think i’m a good person to make a judgement on what is “right”- I just need a calculator and a logic that scans the numbers for bias and inconsistencies. I don’t need to think anything about myself- my only task is to build a map that represents the territory accurately. I guess luckily my interpretation of the world says that what is “right and logical” is also “moral and just”- so I don’t have to worry about if my utility gain is “evil” since it’s only possible for it to go up if it’s “good”.
If I was to submit to the ideology of everyone needing or having a self-identity then it would be very rudimentary. A simple statement saying like “I am an agent which attempts to maximize utility” is enough to cover it. That tells me to “do the math”- but doesn’t tell me what to do. It’s enough to let me know I exist but isn’t a pre-fabricated one size fits all play block.
Self-image to me seems like a biased filter to pass data through. I don’t need to ask what I would do- the simple answer is “I do what I have already have and am yet to do” -and that answer is sufficient enough to not bottleneck my interpretation of the world and subsequent actions.
The whole problem with being human is biases pop up everywhere so the only sane thing to do is to ask “why?” often. “Dan does Dan things”- why? Um i dunno...because he’s Dan? You need real reasons why you think/do things rather than stereo types that could of come from anywhere.
This is a straw-manning of the use of narrative, i.e. over-using it. Try steel-manning it, which is the point of the post. For example, take this observation:
Indeed. And biased filters are sometimes good; e.g. google “bias variance tradeoff”, or read it about it here or here. In particular, biased estimators are often more accurate than unbiased onces due to having less variance. I think use of narrative schema and other thick concepts as literal examples of this. The trick is using them wisely, instead of always or never.
Oftentimes, nothing has changed in the relevant period. Recomputing from scratch which diet is best for me- including rereading all of the relevant research- every time I think about food seems like a terrible idea. Looking at the research, picking a diet for myself, and saying “this is me until I re-evaluate in three months,” seems like a good idea.
You have limited time to think; use it wisely!
You don’t have to calculate every single factor from scratch. You can use “this is what i ate yesterday” and “last week this diet made me feel good” rather than start from scratch. For example you can take for given that you don’t have to calculate if you are still on earth or not to decide what to eat. Using data of recalled past experience and keeping already collected data such as food nutrition is ALOT different then asking “What would X do?”. Even while using this stored data, as you start to apply it you can ask a quick question of how reliable the data was. Did you study it in a book? If so, you can probably summarize the time length wasn’t long enough that information would of changed and that maybe the source was reliable from the start so doesn’t need re-evaluating yet. In another example if you lived a sheltered life where you grew up and carrots were the only food source you would say “My self image is a carrot eater. When I am hungry, I eat carrots”. Presented with a new variety all the sudden if you asked your self image for help rather than calculate a new answer then you’ll continue to eat carrots forever and nothing else. Especially if you came upon the self image of an exclusive carrot eater (just because there was nothing else at the time when you made your image)- in which case you might even feel embarrassed or like you are failing yourself if you eat something else because your self image will say “but I only eat carrots...yet i’m eating banana… so i’m not being myself… oh dear”.
Honestly this IS how i think and I DO have time to make these calculations. I really wouldn’t say I do anything other than “try to maximize utility”- I don’t need to constrain myself to any action other than that. Yes I can describe what I have liked in the past- but that doesn’t prescribe what I will do in the future- instead it is used as height weight data during my next decision.
My point was though that even using this stored data is much better than the blanket question of “What would my self-image do?”. Asking what your set self-image would do will only yield 1 answer continuously and disallow further growth and change.
This post is about deliberately choosing your self-image, with the implication that it can and should change sometimes.
Notice that choosing between standing policies is actually different from separately choosing independent actions, and those two situations can lead to different choices.