David, yes supposedly altruistic “paternalism” by parents is often a mask for other less admirable motives. But since you and I debated government paternalism, I presume you think that more justified because in that case we are in fact more altruistic. But you should consider: how can you be so sure? As a parent I can tell you we sure feel like we are altruistic, just as pundits and wonks do when promoting government paternalism. Do you have more evidence besides your feeling of altruism?
I don’t know what Balan would say, but our evolutionary history required parents to have instincts toward genuinely beneficial things for their children, not simply behavior that gives a fake altruism signal while hurting them.
Strictly speaking, this is just an instinct toward doing things that help your children spread their genes, but this largely coincides with what we would consider helpful, at least in the long term.
Robin, I don’t see any disconnect here. I certainly did not mean to suggest that parents shouldn’t be paternalistic towards their children. Of course they must be, though there is room for legitimate argument about how much paternalism is really necessary, and I think often less is better than more. The point of the post was simply to point out that people often disguise cruelty as justifiable paternalism, and that that’s bad. Same idea with government paternalism. I think there is a real necessary role for it, but it is susceptible to abuse. As I argued in our debate, in times and places where the abuse was very severe, we would have been better off getting rid of it altogether. But in decently well-functioning societies, that’s not the case. And if we got even better at limiting the abuses, I’d probably be in favor of even more paternalism.
With decent well functioning kids parents don’t need paternalism. With decent well functioning citizens governments don’t need paternalism. So how do we know when the parents and governments are more well functioning than kids and citizens?
It’s not that in well-functioning societies there’s no need for paternalism. It’s that in well-functioning societies the government can be trusted with enough power that they can carry out the kind of modestly paternalistic agenda that people like me favor. Similarly, in well-functioning families parents can be trusted with enough power to do modest, reasonable parental paternalism. Naturally, in poorly-functioning societies/families the government/parents seize power anyway, but we’re talking abut what’s legitimate, not about what actually happens.
David, yes supposedly altruistic “paternalism” by parents is often a mask for other less admirable motives. But since you and I debated government paternalism, I presume you think that more justified because in that case we are in fact more altruistic. But you should consider: how can you be so sure? As a parent I can tell you we sure feel like we are altruistic, just as pundits and wonks do when promoting government paternalism. Do you have more evidence besides your feeling of altruism?
I don’t know what Balan would say, but our evolutionary history required parents to have instincts toward genuinely beneficial things for their children, not simply behavior that gives a fake altruism signal while hurting them.
Strictly speaking, this is just an instinct toward doing things that help your children spread their genes, but this largely coincides with what we would consider helpful, at least in the long term.
Robin, I don’t see any disconnect here. I certainly did not mean to suggest that parents shouldn’t be paternalistic towards their children. Of course they must be, though there is room for legitimate argument about how much paternalism is really necessary, and I think often less is better than more. The point of the post was simply to point out that people often disguise cruelty as justifiable paternalism, and that that’s bad. Same idea with government paternalism. I think there is a real necessary role for it, but it is susceptible to abuse. As I argued in our debate, in times and places where the abuse was very severe, we would have been better off getting rid of it altogether. But in decently well-functioning societies, that’s not the case. And if we got even better at limiting the abuses, I’d probably be in favor of even more paternalism.
With decent well functioning kids parents don’t need paternalism. With decent well functioning citizens governments don’t need paternalism. So how do we know when the parents and governments are more well functioning than kids and citizens?
It’s not that in well-functioning societies there’s no need for paternalism. It’s that in well-functioning societies the government can be trusted with enough power that they can carry out the kind of modestly paternalistic agenda that people like me favor. Similarly, in well-functioning families parents can be trusted with enough power to do modest, reasonable parental paternalism. Naturally, in poorly-functioning societies/families the government/parents seize power anyway, but we’re talking abut what’s legitimate, not about what actually happens.