Right, about this. So the overall point of the Ramaswamy example was to illustrate how subject specific knowledge is helpful in formulating a rebuttal and distinguishing between bullshit and non-bullshit claims.
See for example, this comment
This sure sounds like something a bullshit debater would say. Hundreds of thousands of people dying doesn’t really mean a country isn’t about to give up. Maybe it’s the reason they are about to give up; there’s always a line, and whos to say it isn’t in the hundreds of thousands? Zelensky having popular support does seem to support your point, and I could go check primary sources on that, but even if I did your point about “selecting the right facts and omitting others” still stands, and there’s no easy way to find out if you’re full of shit here or not.
Yes, that’s the whole point. I didn’t think it was a problem before, but now… well...
I think I’m starting to realize the dilemma I’m in. I aimed to explain something in full object level terms so I can properly explain why subject matter knowledge helps discern between a true and a false claim… but then actually discerning what’s true and what’s false requires subject matter knowledge I can’t properly distill in the span of a few thousand words. Catch-22, oops.
I could bring out the factual evidence and analyze it if you like, but I don’t think that was your intention. In any case, feedback appreciated! Yes, this was definitely an issue, I’ll take more care in future examples.
I think “subject specific knowledge is helpful in distinguishing between bullshit and non-bullshit claims.” is pretty clear on its own, and if you want to add an example it’d be sufficient to do something simple and vague like “If someone cites scientific studies you haven’t had time to read, it can sound like they’ve actually done their research. Except sometimes when you do this you’ll find that the study doesn’t actually support their claim”.
“How to formulate a rebuttal” sounds like a very different thing, depending on what your social goals are with the rebuttal.
I think I’m starting to realize the dilemma I’m in.
Yeah, you’re kinda stuck between “That’s too obvious of a problem for me to fall into!” and “I don’t see a problem here! I don’t believe you!”. I’d personally err on the side of the obvious, while highlighting why the examples I’m picking are so obvious.
I could bring out the factual evidence and analyze it if you like, but I don’t think that was your intention
Yeah, I think that’d require a pretty big conversation and I already agree with the point you’re trying to use it to make.
Right, about this. So the overall point of the Ramaswamy example was to illustrate how subject specific knowledge is helpful in formulating a rebuttal and distinguishing between bullshit and non-bullshit claims.
See for example, this comment
Yes, that’s the whole point. I didn’t think it was a problem before, but now… well...
I think I’m starting to realize the dilemma I’m in. I aimed to explain something in full object level terms so I can properly explain why subject matter knowledge helps discern between a true and a false claim… but then actually discerning what’s true and what’s false requires subject matter knowledge I can’t properly distill in the span of a few thousand words. Catch-22, oops.
I could bring out the factual evidence and analyze it if you like, but I don’t think that was your intention. In any case, feedback appreciated! Yes, this was definitely an issue, I’ll take more care in future examples.
I think “subject specific knowledge is helpful in distinguishing between bullshit and non-bullshit claims.” is pretty clear on its own, and if you want to add an example it’d be sufficient to do something simple and vague like “If someone cites scientific studies you haven’t had time to read, it can sound like they’ve actually done their research. Except sometimes when you do this you’ll find that the study doesn’t actually support their claim”.
“How to formulate a rebuttal” sounds like a very different thing, depending on what your social goals are with the rebuttal.
Yeah, you’re kinda stuck between “That’s too obvious of a problem for me to fall into!” and “I don’t see a problem here! I don’t believe you!”. I’d personally err on the side of the obvious, while highlighting why the examples I’m picking are so obvious.
Yeah, I think that’d require a pretty big conversation and I already agree with the point you’re trying to use it to make.