I’m not entirely sure the thesis quite captured exactly what was going on. It’s true balancing the factions was a big deal to the founders and there were number of ways one can cast the USA into some dichotomous buckets—North/South (which is largely industrial/agrarian) or the Federalist/Anit Federalist and probably some others. But the other point of the separation of powers and the nature of the bicameral struture was about checks and balaces both within the population and within government itself. In that sense I agree one can cast the position as some type of veto for the large minority but it was probably more about just increasing the costs of passing legislation at the federal level.
An interesting compare/contrast here might be looking at the federal level and then looking at the States.
The idea probably also needs to be run through the lens of modern political economy (Public Choice/Social Choice) theory as many of the conclusion from that literature is that in general the majority is hardly ever really doing anything—special interests and narrow factions are in more control.
I think it was Knut Wicksell that suggested the idea that Constitutions should have a rule whereby legislation didn’t pass with just a simple majority but needed some higher level of approval, e.g., 60%. But he didn’t stop there. The Constitution would then allow a smaller number of people repeal the law. So if once implemented and 15% of the legislature were getting ear fulls from their constituents they could force the repeal of the law with a vote and only need to meet that 15% theashold. I don’t think that was ever implement and no idea just how seriously it was discussed but clearly is about providing that type of veto power to a minority that might be feeling abused.
The other thing to point at was the political and something of a constitutional crises that arose in the early 1830s in the Tarrifs of Abomination. The South hated that and I think it came close to Civil war. While true, this was after the addition of new states (I think there were 24 states during that period). So there may have been early warning signs of the imballance to any check on existing status quo powers for opposing change. Looking at some of the additions over time another interesting fact show up. More than a few new states were infact part of existing states rather than due to territorial expansion. Would looking into what might have been driving that result through the lens of significant minority lacking a veto help support the thesis?
The following is a bit tangetal to John’s point. It’s also not well presented, but since we’re talking about forms of government I’ll toss the thought out.
I’ve been mulling over the idea posing the question “What should a 21st Century Government look like?” The one’s we have can all largely be called 18th Century forms (and likely earlier). In thinking about this I tent do contrast government and market—two very significant social institutions. Unlike, say, David Friedman (_Machinery of Freedom_) I don’t think they are interchangable. The exist to solve different social “problems”. Both do involved exchanges and mediating diverse preference/interests. But a key difference is that government is nearly always seen as an “actor” while markets are an environment inwhich people act.
I wonder how much scope there might be for shifting things the government is actively doing into a government structure that is more like markets—in that it provides an institutional setting that reduces organizational costs for collective action by various groups in the polity and even in some cases all people (in the 90% sense of “all” maybe). Two sources of discontent are not being able to get things done socially you are interested in seeing done and having things you don’t want done done in your name—i.e., you’re footing the bill like it or not.
I’ll kind of cherry-pick an example here: Social Welfare progams the government runs. I suspect there would still be a role here but not in the heavy handed way we currently have. Clearly with all the go-fundme and other crowd source funding that exists the technology is largely in place. I’m not 100% sure about this but trust the source of the comment (old professor of mine). Britain supposedly established government welfare programs because people of the time feared that too much money was being given away. It was difficult for any one person wanting to help to know just who else has been providing funding. If so, then perhaps government social programs were and are structued to reduce the total amount, not maximize or spend efficiently. Given the current state of things, in the US and probably elsewhere, the rally cry is that we need more spending. If government was not the active agent in delivering these social services would we perhaps see more (and possibly better) spending?
Clearly there are other areas where government is some type of informational and organizational cost reducing, passive strucure than the active agent in control won’t work. Butit seems like the more we can collectively accomplish without having some central actor as opposed to some central insitutional environment within to act for ourselves. To the extent that can work it would seem to remove the need to have some veto mechanism other than the personal choice of each person. As there is no common pool of resources to desire, I suspect some of the factional fighting disappears and Peter never has to rob Paul to pay Patty as does happen in today’s structure.
I’m not entirely sure the thesis quite captured exactly what was going on. It’s true balancing the factions was a big deal to the founders and there were number of ways one can cast the USA into some dichotomous buckets—North/South (which is largely industrial/agrarian) or the Federalist/Anit Federalist and probably some others. But the other point of the separation of powers and the nature of the bicameral struture was about checks and balaces both within the population and within government itself. In that sense I agree one can cast the position as some type of veto for the large minority but it was probably more about just increasing the costs of passing legislation at the federal level.
An interesting compare/contrast here might be looking at the federal level and then looking at the States.
The idea probably also needs to be run through the lens of modern political economy (Public Choice/Social Choice) theory as many of the conclusion from that literature is that in general the majority is hardly ever really doing anything—special interests and narrow factions are in more control.
I think it was Knut Wicksell that suggested the idea that Constitutions should have a rule whereby legislation didn’t pass with just a simple majority but needed some higher level of approval, e.g., 60%. But he didn’t stop there. The Constitution would then allow a smaller number of people repeal the law. So if once implemented and 15% of the legislature were getting ear fulls from their constituents they could force the repeal of the law with a vote and only need to meet that 15% theashold. I don’t think that was ever implement and no idea just how seriously it was discussed but clearly is about providing that type of veto power to a minority that might be feeling abused.
The other thing to point at was the political and something of a constitutional crises that arose in the early 1830s in the Tarrifs of Abomination. The South hated that and I think it came close to Civil war. While true, this was after the addition of new states (I think there were 24 states during that period). So there may have been early warning signs of the imballance to any check on existing status quo powers for opposing change. Looking at some of the additions over time another interesting fact show up. More than a few new states were infact part of existing states rather than due to territorial expansion. Would looking into what might have been driving that result through the lens of significant minority lacking a veto help support the thesis?
The following is a bit tangetal to John’s point. It’s also not well presented, but since we’re talking about forms of government I’ll toss the thought out.
I’ve been mulling over the idea posing the question “What should a 21st Century Government look like?” The one’s we have can all largely be called 18th Century forms (and likely earlier). In thinking about this I tent do contrast government and market—two very significant social institutions. Unlike, say, David Friedman (_Machinery of Freedom_) I don’t think they are interchangable. The exist to solve different social “problems”. Both do involved exchanges and mediating diverse preference/interests. But a key difference is that government is nearly always seen as an “actor” while markets are an environment inwhich people act.
I wonder how much scope there might be for shifting things the government is actively doing into a government structure that is more like markets—in that it provides an institutional setting that reduces organizational costs for collective action by various groups in the polity and even in some cases all people (in the 90% sense of “all” maybe). Two sources of discontent are not being able to get things done socially you are interested in seeing done and having things you don’t want done done in your name—i.e., you’re footing the bill like it or not.
I’ll kind of cherry-pick an example here: Social Welfare progams the government runs. I suspect there would still be a role here but not in the heavy handed way we currently have. Clearly with all the go-fundme and other crowd source funding that exists the technology is largely in place. I’m not 100% sure about this but trust the source of the comment (old professor of mine). Britain supposedly established government welfare programs because people of the time feared that too much money was being given away. It was difficult for any one person wanting to help to know just who else has been providing funding. If so, then perhaps government social programs were and are structued to reduce the total amount, not maximize or spend efficiently. Given the current state of things, in the US and probably elsewhere, the rally cry is that we need more spending. If government was not the active agent in delivering these social services would we perhaps see more (and possibly better) spending?
Clearly there are other areas where government is some type of informational and organizational cost reducing, passive strucure than the active agent in control won’t work. Butit seems like the more we can collectively accomplish without having some central actor as opposed to some central insitutional environment within to act for ourselves. To the extent that can work it would seem to remove the need to have some veto mechanism other than the personal choice of each person. As there is no common pool of resources to desire, I suspect some of the factional fighting disappears and Peter never has to rob Paul to pay Patty as does happen in today’s structure.