Hmm. I feel like I might not have quite gotten my point across (which is possibly because it was nearly 5 AM when I posted that comment). I can’t yet tell if we disagree or if I simply haven’t made clear what I’m saying, so let me try to expand a bit on this.
You say:
yes, performative conversation is often the default, but it performative conversation makes it harder to find and agree on truth.
This seems to suggest a model where two people are engaging in collaborative truth-seeking, but—because they’re doing this in public—performativeness is a quality that their conversation ends up having, which interferes with their goal.
I, on the other hand, am suggesting a model where the performative aspect is inseparable from the goal, where it, in a serious sense, is [a large part of] the goal.
Now, maybe it’s just that we differ in our estimation of how prevalent this is (or how prevalent it is here). But… it seems to me to be a fairly safe supposition that even if conversation-as-performance[1] is less common on Less Wrong than elsewhere (relative to “conversation as collaborative truth-seeking”), it is probably almost always what’s going on in what you call “demon thread”.
But this means that taking the conversation private will basically never help.
I’m fairly confident that we’re (roughly) understanding each other, but have some underlying differences on a combination of a) how the world currently is, b) how the LW world is right now, c) what’s desireable and achievable for LW culture.
(Actually I think we probably agree on how the world in general is).
I think that’s beyond the scope of the conversation I want to have on this post though.
Fair enough, and I tentatively agree with your evaluation.
I do think that this broader conversation is important to have at some point (though, indeed, this post is not the place for it)—because whether this (or, indeed, any other) scheme succeeds, depends on its outcome.
Agreed. For now, I just want to be clear that I think the tactic outlined in this post only makes sense if you’re using the overall strategy listed in this parent comment, and I think whether that strategy makes sense depends on whatever your current situation is.
Hmm. I feel like I might not have quite gotten my point across (which is possibly because it was nearly 5 AM when I posted that comment). I can’t yet tell if we disagree or if I simply haven’t made clear what I’m saying, so let me try to expand a bit on this.
You say:
This seems to suggest a model where two people are engaging in collaborative truth-seeking, but—because they’re doing this in public—performativeness is a quality that their conversation ends up having, which interferes with their goal.
I, on the other hand, am suggesting a model where the performative aspect is inseparable from the goal, where it, in a serious sense, is [a large part of] the goal.
Now, maybe it’s just that we differ in our estimation of how prevalent this is (or how prevalent it is here). But… it seems to me to be a fairly safe supposition that even if conversation-as-performance[1] is less common on Less Wrong than elsewhere (relative to “conversation as collaborative truth-seeking”), it is probably almost always what’s going on in what you call “demon thread”.
But this means that taking the conversation private will basically never help.
I’m fairly confident that we’re (roughly) understanding each other, but have some underlying differences on a combination of a) how the world currently is, b) how the LW world is right now, c) what’s desireable and achievable for LW culture.
(Actually I think we probably agree on how the world in general is).
I think that’s beyond the scope of the conversation I want to have on this post though.
Fair enough, and I tentatively agree with your evaluation.
I do think that this broader conversation is important to have at some point (though, indeed, this post is not the place for it)—because whether this (or, indeed, any other) scheme succeeds, depends on its outcome.
Agreed. For now, I just want to be clear that I think the tactic outlined in this post only makes sense if you’re using the overall strategy listed in this parent comment, and I think whether that strategy makes sense depends on whatever your current situation is.