Confusion in the sense of one or both parties coming to the table with incorrect models is a root cause, but this is nearly always the default situation. We ostensibly partake in a conversation in order to update our models to more accurate ones and reduce confusion. So while yes, a lack of confusion would make bad conversations less likely, it also just reduces the need for the conversation to begin with.
And here we’re talking about a specific type of conversation that we’ve claimed is a bad thing and should be prevented. Here we need to identify a different root cause besides “confusion” which was too general of a root cause to explain these specific types of conversations.
What I’m claiming as a candidate cause is that there are usually other underlying motives for a conversation besides resolving disagreement. In addition people are bringing models of the other person’s confusion / motives in to the discussion, and that’s what I argue is causing problems and is a practice that should be set aside.
I think the Kensho post did spawn demon threads and that these threads contained the characteristics I mentioned in my original comment.
We can say that all disagreements start with confusion. Then I claim that if the confusion is quickly resolved, or if one of the parties exits the conversation, then the thread is normal and healthy. And that in all other cases the thread is demonic. Not all confusion is created equal. I’m claiming that the depth of this initial confusion is the best predictor of demon threads. I can understand why status games would prevent someone from exiting, but people ignoring their deep confusions is not a good outcome, so we don’t really want them to exit, we want them to resolve it. I don’t really see how status games could deepen the confusion.
In addition people are bringing models of the other person’s confusion / motives in to the discussion
I’d call that “confusion about what the other party thinks”, and put it under the umbrella of general confusion. In fact that’s the first kind of confusion I think about, when I think of demonic threads, but object-level confusion is important too. Maybe we aren’t disagreeing?
Confusion in the sense of one or both parties coming to the table with incorrect models is a root cause, but this is nearly always the default situation. We ostensibly partake in a conversation in order to update our models to more accurate ones and reduce confusion. So while yes, a lack of confusion would make bad conversations less likely, it also just reduces the need for the conversation to begin with.
And here we’re talking about a specific type of conversation that we’ve claimed is a bad thing and should be prevented. Here we need to identify a different root cause besides “confusion” which was too general of a root cause to explain these specific types of conversations.
What I’m claiming as a candidate cause is that there are usually other underlying motives for a conversation besides resolving disagreement. In addition people are bringing models of the other person’s confusion / motives in to the discussion, and that’s what I argue is causing problems and is a practice that should be set aside.
I think the Kensho post did spawn demon threads and that these threads contained the characteristics I mentioned in my original comment.
We can say that all disagreements start with confusion. Then I claim that if the confusion is quickly resolved, or if one of the parties exits the conversation, then the thread is normal and healthy. And that in all other cases the thread is demonic. Not all confusion is created equal. I’m claiming that the depth of this initial confusion is the best predictor of demon threads. I can understand why status games would prevent someone from exiting, but people ignoring their deep confusions is not a good outcome, so we don’t really want them to exit, we want them to resolve it. I don’t really see how status games could deepen the confusion.
I’d call that “confusion about what the other party thinks”, and put it under the umbrella of general confusion. In fact that’s the first kind of confusion I think about, when I think of demonic threads, but object-level confusion is important too. Maybe we aren’t disagreeing?