(1) old dead guys who were wrong about almost everything because they knew nothing of modern logic, probability theory, or science
I’d argue the old dead guys where much less wrong on a great many things where modern popular educated opinion is not informed by logic, probability theory and science. From the ones you cited I gained non-trivial insight by reading Aristotle and Nietzsche (haven’t gotten around to Kant). Feelings of insight on their own probably should be mistrusted, but besides it being an indicator of them being interesting I think they are probably right on many matters.
Not that I’m disagreeing with your proscription as those bits are never steel manned so as to take into account modern discoveries, but worse systematically rendered intellectually impotent by the way they are taught about. Furthermore most of those observations should be studied by branches other than philosophy (though I really like Aristotle’s approach to virtue).
Also can I just ask why you used “guys” instead of using a more gender neutral tag of philosophers or thinkers? I don’t think their sex is at all relevant to their philosophical failings or successes. They where separated by a social and cultural gap that is much larger than the one that usually exists between people of a different sex in a given society. The raw underlying biology probably does cause a systematic effect, but it isn’t anything not shared by the branches of modern philosophy you champion, the other sciences or even LessWrong for that matter.
Are you trying to piggyback on or carrying this meme? Or do you just comply with the convention of using male pronouns and the like as default?
It’s probably just that the fact the mentioned philosophers were indeed male makes it possible to use the diminutive/familiar term “guys”. “Philosophers” or “thinkers” would have looked too respectful. But “old dead guys” expresses the opinion that these were, you know, just these guys who didn’t know much at all by today’s standards.
I’d argue the old dead guys where much less wrong on a great many things where modern popular educated opinion is not informed by logic, probability theory and science. From the ones you cited I gained non-trivial insight by reading Aristotle and Nietzsche (haven’t gotten around to Kant). Feelings of insight on their own probably should be mistrusted, but besides it being an indicator of them being interesting I think they are probably right on many matters.
Not that I’m disagreeing with your proscription as those bits are never steel manned so as to take into account modern discoveries, but worse systematically rendered intellectually impotent by the way they are taught about. Furthermore most of those observations should be studied by branches other than philosophy (though I really like Aristotle’s approach to virtue).
Also can I just ask why you used “guys” instead of using a more gender neutral tag of philosophers or thinkers? I don’t think their sex is at all relevant to their philosophical failings or successes. They where separated by a social and cultural gap that is much larger than the one that usually exists between people of a different sex in a given society. The raw underlying biology probably does cause a systematic effect, but it isn’t anything not shared by the branches of modern philosophy you champion, the other sciences or even LessWrong for that matter.
Are you trying to piggyback on or carrying this meme? Or do you just comply with the convention of using male pronouns and the like as default?
It’s probably just that the fact the mentioned philosophers were indeed male makes it possible to use the diminutive/familiar term “guys”. “Philosophers” or “thinkers” would have looked too respectful. But “old dead guys” expresses the opinion that these were, you know, just these guys who didn’t know much at all by today’s standards.