Yep, Oli gave Zoe Curzi $15k. I do think the reputation-for-it is relevant, and will probably change the dynamics the next time that someone comes to me/Lightcone with reports of terrible behavior, but in this case Alice and Chloe (and others) spent the majority of the time I’m referring to talking to CEA, who has no such reputation.
Notably, one way to offset the reputational issue is to sometimes give people money for saying novel positive things about an org. The issue is less “people receive money for updating us” and more “people receive money only if they updated us in a certain direction”, or even worse “people receive money only if they updated us in a way that fits a specific narrative (e.g., This Org Is Culty And Abusive)”.
I’m especially excited about giving money to people who have been credibly silenced and intimidated. I think this is good, but will systematically spread info about wrongdoing.
If it’s money for “credible signs of intimidation” maybe that’s less gameable.
Actually, I do know of an example of y’all offering money to someone for defending an org you disliked and were suspicious of. @habryka, did that money get accepted?
(The incentive effects are basically the same whether it was accepted or not, as long as it’s public knowledge that the money was offered; so it seems good to make this public if possible.)
That summary is inaccurate, so I don’t think there is any org for which that is true. I offered money to both Zoe Curzi and to Cathleen for doing info-gathering on Leverage stuff, but that was explicitly for both positive and negative information (and happens to have been offered in roughly equal measure, with Zoe writing a quite negative piece and Cathleen writing a relatively positive piece).
Yep, Oli gave Zoe Curzi $15k. I do think the reputation-for-it is relevant, and will probably change the dynamics the next time that someone comes to me/Lightcone with reports of terrible behavior, but in this case Alice and Chloe (and others) spent the majority of the time I’m referring to talking to CEA, who has no such reputation.
Notably, one way to offset the reputational issue is to sometimes give people money for saying novel positive things about an org. The issue is less “people receive money for updating us” and more “people receive money only if they updated us in a certain direction”, or even worse “people receive money only if they updated us in a way that fits a specific narrative (e.g., This Org Is Culty And Abusive)”.
I’m especially excited about giving money to people who have been credibly silenced and intimidated. I think this is good, but will systematically spread info about wrongdoing.
If it’s money for “credible signs of intimidation” maybe that’s less gameable.
Actually, I do know of an example of y’all offering money to someone for defending an org you disliked and were suspicious of. @habryka, did that money get accepted?
(The incentive effects are basically the same whether it was accepted or not, as long as it’s public knowledge that the money was offered; so it seems good to make this public if possible.)
That summary is inaccurate, so I don’t think there is any org for which that is true. I offered money to both Zoe Curzi and to Cathleen for doing info-gathering on Leverage stuff, but that was explicitly for both positive and negative information (and happens to have been offered in roughly equal measure, with Zoe writing a quite negative piece and Cathleen writing a relatively positive piece).