but the memeplexes can, at times, resist the growth of more accurate memeplexes which would ensure host survival better, because agency of the memetic networks and agency of the neural and genetic networks need not be aimed anywhere good, or even necessarily anywhere coherent in particular at times of high mutation. Notably, memeplexes that promote death and malice are more common in the presence of high rates of death and malice; death and malice are themselves self-propagating memetic diseases, in addition to whatever underlying mechanistic diseases might be causing them.
but the memeplexes can, at times, resist the growth of more accurate memeplexes which would ensure host survival better,
Of course, but IMHO they cannot do it for long, at least not on civilizational time scales. Memeplexes that ensure host survival better, and atop of that, empower the hosts, ultimately always win.
As of yet, we do not have any Deus Ex Machina to help the memeplexes exist without a host, or spread without the host being more powerful (physically, politically, socially, scientifically, technologically etc) than the hosts of other memeplexes. Over time, the memetic landscape tends to average out to begrudgingly positive and progressive, because memeplexes that fail to push the hosts forward are outcompeted.
One of the best examples of that is the memeplex of Far Right/Nazi/Fascist ideology, which, while memetically robust, tends to shoot itself in the foot and lose the memetic warfare without much coherent opposition from the liberal memeplexes. It resurfaces all the time, but never accomplishes much, because it is more host-detrimental than it is virulent. Meanwhile, memeplexes tht are kinda-sorta wishy-washy slightly Left of center, egalitarian-ish but not too much, vaguely pro-science and mildly technological, progressive-ish but unobtrusively, tend to always win, and had been winning since the times of Babylon. They struck the perfect balance between memetic frugality, virulence, and benefiting the hosts.
Yeah, I see we’re thinking on similar terms. I was in fact thinking specifically of the pattern of authoritarian, hyper-destructive memeplexes occasionally coming back up, growing fast, and then suddenly collapsing, repeatedly; sometimes doing huge amounts of damage when this occurs.
I don’t think we disagree, I was just expressing another rotation of what seems to already be your perspective.
but the memeplexes can, at times, resist the growth of more accurate memeplexes which would ensure host survival better, because agency of the memetic networks and agency of the neural and genetic networks need not be aimed anywhere good, or even necessarily anywhere coherent in particular at times of high mutation. Notably, memeplexes that promote death and malice are more common in the presence of high rates of death and malice; death and malice are themselves self-propagating memetic diseases, in addition to whatever underlying mechanistic diseases might be causing them.
Of course, but IMHO they cannot do it for long, at least not on civilizational time scales. Memeplexes that ensure host survival better, and atop of that, empower the hosts, ultimately always win.
As of yet, we do not have any Deus Ex Machina to help the memeplexes exist without a host, or spread without the host being more powerful (physically, politically, socially, scientifically, technologically etc) than the hosts of other memeplexes. Over time, the memetic landscape tends to average out to begrudgingly positive and progressive, because memeplexes that fail to push the hosts forward are outcompeted.
One of the best examples of that is the memeplex of Far Right/Nazi/Fascist ideology, which, while memetically robust, tends to shoot itself in the foot and lose the memetic warfare without much coherent opposition from the liberal memeplexes. It resurfaces all the time, but never accomplishes much, because it is more host-detrimental than it is virulent. Meanwhile, memeplexes tht are kinda-sorta wishy-washy slightly Left of center, egalitarian-ish but not too much, vaguely pro-science and mildly technological, progressive-ish but unobtrusively, tend to always win, and had been winning since the times of Babylon. They struck the perfect balance between memetic frugality, virulence, and benefiting the hosts.
Yeah, I see we’re thinking on similar terms. I was in fact thinking specifically of the pattern of authoritarian, hyper-destructive memeplexes occasionally coming back up, growing fast, and then suddenly collapsing, repeatedly; sometimes doing huge amounts of damage when this occurs.
I don’t think we disagree, I was just expressing another rotation of what seems to already be your perspective.