Because of the difference between the map and the territory.
We’re talking about a counterfactual universe where Christianity is true. This is a different universe from the one we live in, different in many subtle and profound ways. It’s not just the same old world that happens to have an angry old guy sitting up there in the clouds, chucking souls alternatively into a fire pit and into a line for harps.
One of the differences is that in the Christian world morality exists not in your mind, but in the world. It is objective, not subjective. It is built in into the fabric of reality. It is part of the territory.
You can redefine the greater good no more than you can redefine the value of pi or the Planck length.
Now maps, sure. You can draw whatever maps you like and tag things with whatever labels you want. You can make a map of the desert, call it a mountain, and start constructing a ship in the middle of it. That’s all fine—but all you’re doing is scribbling on a map and the territory is not changed by that.
That’s, by the way, is why occasionally Christians classify atheism as a mental disorder. From their point of view claiming to define the greater good yourself is tantamount to claiming to define the gravitational constant yourself—clearly a crazy thing to do. You’re constructing false maps.
Your ability to name things does not change what things are.
That’s like suggesting a hypothetical world where diamonds are red and made of corundum, while rubies are a form of carbon.
We use terms such as “diamonds”, “rubies”, and “greater good” because we are trying to convey some concept. They’re defined that way. In this hypothetical Christian world, “greater good” no longer means the same thing as that concept. If so, how is it meaningful to even call it greater good? It clearly is nothing like what I would otherwise think of as greater good.
The point is that I use the label because I want to express the concept. If something doesn’t match the concept, I’m not going to use the label for it. I’m “privileging” my concept because I’m the one doing the communicating and I’m not going to deliberately communicate something other than what I want to communicate.
Answer your same question with the above definitions of diamonds and rubies. Are you really “privileging your concept” if you insist that because clear gemstones made from carbon are not what you mean by “ruby”, you’re not going to call them that? “Greater good” in this hypothetical Christian world is as far from what I mean by “greater good” as rubies are from “clear gemstone made of carbon”.
I’m “privileging” my concept because I’m the one doing the communicating
A communication involves two parties. As I said, you can define things any way you like, that neither affects what they are nor helps your attempts to communicate.
The metaphor of diamonds and rubies works against you because the standard, default presumption on the part of most people in the real world is that morality is objective, not subjective. Most people would agree that you can’t define your own morality. So when you come and say “I can define the greater good to be anything I like”, you are the minority who says that corundum stones which everyone calls rubies should not be called so—you personally define rubies to mean “the gleam of red in my eye” and so there!
In any case your disagreement with the Christians is deeper than just terminology. You insist that the gems are just an illusion and you can make them be anything you want in your mind’s eye. They say that the gems are real and whatever you’re imagining is your own problem and does not affect the real gems in the real world.
the standard, default presumption on the part of most people in the real world is that morality is objective, not subjective.
There’s a wide gap between “I can define it to mean anything I like” and “I can define it within a certain range”. Given the hypothetical where forcibly converting Jews is for the greater good, most people in the real world would say “in that hypothetical, ‘greater good’ is so far from what we ordinarily mean by ‘greater good’ that there’s no point in even calling it that”. People in the real world give lip service to morality being objective but wouldn’t carry that to its conclusion.
...most people in the real world would say … People in the real world give lip service to morality being objective but wouldn’t carry that to its conclusion.
Please provide some evidence for these assertions. I happen to think they are false. I think you’re projecting your personal bubble onto the entire world.
Given the hypothetical where forcibly converting Jews is for the greater good, most people in the real world would say “in that hypothetical, ‘greater good’ is so far from what we ordinarily mean by ‘greater good’ that there’s no point in even calling it that”.
Except if you claim to be a utilitarian, you’re not allowed to say that.
Because of the difference between the map and the territory.
We’re talking about a counterfactual universe where Christianity is true. This is a different universe from the one we live in, different in many subtle and profound ways. It’s not just the same old world that happens to have an angry old guy sitting up there in the clouds, chucking souls alternatively into a fire pit and into a line for harps.
One of the differences is that in the Christian world morality exists not in your mind, but in the world. It is objective, not subjective. It is built in into the fabric of reality. It is part of the territory.
You can redefine the greater good no more than you can redefine the value of pi or the Planck length.
Now maps, sure. You can draw whatever maps you like and tag things with whatever labels you want. You can make a map of the desert, call it a mountain, and start constructing a ship in the middle of it. That’s all fine—but all you’re doing is scribbling on a map and the territory is not changed by that.
That’s, by the way, is why occasionally Christians classify atheism as a mental disorder. From their point of view claiming to define the greater good yourself is tantamount to claiming to define the gravitational constant yourself—clearly a crazy thing to do. You’re constructing false maps.
Your ability to name things does not change what things are.
That’s like suggesting a hypothetical world where diamonds are red and made of corundum, while rubies are a form of carbon.
We use terms such as “diamonds”, “rubies”, and “greater good” because we are trying to convey some concept. They’re defined that way. In this hypothetical Christian world, “greater good” no longer means the same thing as that concept. If so, how is it meaningful to even call it greater good? It clearly is nothing like what I would otherwise think of as greater good.
To you. Why do you privilege your concept over the Christian concept? I bet more people believe in objective morality than in subjective morality.
The point is that I use the label because I want to express the concept. If something doesn’t match the concept, I’m not going to use the label for it. I’m “privileging” my concept because I’m the one doing the communicating and I’m not going to deliberately communicate something other than what I want to communicate.
Answer your same question with the above definitions of diamonds and rubies. Are you really “privileging your concept” if you insist that because clear gemstones made from carbon are not what you mean by “ruby”, you’re not going to call them that? “Greater good” in this hypothetical Christian world is as far from what I mean by “greater good” as rubies are from “clear gemstone made of carbon”.
A communication involves two parties. As I said, you can define things any way you like, that neither affects what they are nor helps your attempts to communicate.
The metaphor of diamonds and rubies works against you because the standard, default presumption on the part of most people in the real world is that morality is objective, not subjective. Most people would agree that you can’t define your own morality. So when you come and say “I can define the greater good to be anything I like”, you are the minority who says that corundum stones which everyone calls rubies should not be called so—you personally define rubies to mean “the gleam of red in my eye” and so there!
In any case your disagreement with the Christians is deeper than just terminology. You insist that the gems are just an illusion and you can make them be anything you want in your mind’s eye. They say that the gems are real and whatever you’re imagining is your own problem and does not affect the real gems in the real world.
There’s a wide gap between “I can define it to mean anything I like” and “I can define it within a certain range”. Given the hypothetical where forcibly converting Jews is for the greater good, most people in the real world would say “in that hypothetical, ‘greater good’ is so far from what we ordinarily mean by ‘greater good’ that there’s no point in even calling it that”. People in the real world give lip service to morality being objective but wouldn’t carry that to its conclusion.
Please provide some evidence for these assertions. I happen to think they are false. I think you’re projecting your personal bubble onto the entire world.
Except if you claim to be a utilitarian, you’re not allowed to say that.