...I don’t denotatively disagree with anything you’ve said, but I also think you’re sort of missing the point and forgetting the context of the conversation as it was in the preceding comments.
We all have preferences, but we do not always know what our own preferences are. A subset of our preferences (generally those which do not directly reference ourselves) are termed “moral preferences”. The preceding discussion between me and Peter Hurford is an attempt to figure out what our preferences are.
In the above conversation, words like “matter”, “should” and “moral” is understood to mean “the shared preferences of Ishaan, Dentin, and Peter_Hurford which they agree to define as moral”. Since we are all human (and similar in many other ways beyond that), we probably have very similar moral preferences...so any disagreement that arises between us is usually due to one or both of us inaccurately understanding our own preferences.
There’s no ‘good’ or ‘evil’ in any absolute sense
This is technically true, but it’s also often a semantic stopsign which derails discussions of morality. The fact is that the three of us humans have a very similar notion of “good”, and can speak meaningfully about what it is...the implicitly understood background truths of moral nihilism notwithstanding.
It doesn’t do to exclaim “but wait! good and evil are relative!” during every moral discussion...because here, between us three humans, our moral preferences are pretty much in agreement and we’d all be well served by figuring out exactly those preferences are. It’s not like we’re negotiating morality with aliens.
Which preferences matter? Yours matter to you
Precisely...my preferences are all that matter to me, and our preferences are all that matter to us. So if 10^100 sadistic aliens want to torture...so what? We don’t care if they like torture, because we dislike torture and our preferences are all that matter. Who cares about overall utility? “Morality”, for all practical purposes, means shared human morality...or, at least, the shared morality of the humans who are having the discussion.
“Utility” is kind of like “paperclips”...yes, I understand that in the best case scenario it might be possible to create some sort of construct which measures how much “utility” various agent-like objects get from various real world outcomes, but maximizing utility for all agents within this framework is not necessarily my goal...just like maximizing paperclips is not my goal.
...I don’t denotatively disagree with anything you’ve said, but I also think you’re sort of missing the point and forgetting the context of the conversation as it was in the preceding comments.
We all have preferences, but we do not always know what our own preferences are. A subset of our preferences (generally those which do not directly reference ourselves) are termed “moral preferences”. The preceding discussion between me and Peter Hurford is an attempt to figure out what our preferences are.
In the above conversation, words like “matter”, “should” and “moral” is understood to mean “the shared preferences of Ishaan, Dentin, and Peter_Hurford which they agree to define as moral”. Since we are all human (and similar in many other ways beyond that), we probably have very similar moral preferences...so any disagreement that arises between us is usually due to one or both of us inaccurately understanding our own preferences.
This is technically true, but it’s also often a semantic stopsign which derails discussions of morality. The fact is that the three of us humans have a very similar notion of “good”, and can speak meaningfully about what it is...the implicitly understood background truths of moral nihilism notwithstanding.
It doesn’t do to exclaim “but wait! good and evil are relative!” during every moral discussion...because here, between us three humans, our moral preferences are pretty much in agreement and we’d all be well served by figuring out exactly those preferences are. It’s not like we’re negotiating morality with aliens.
Precisely...my preferences are all that matter to me, and our preferences are all that matter to us. So if 10^100 sadistic aliens want to torture...so what? We don’t care if they like torture, because we dislike torture and our preferences are all that matter. Who cares about overall utility? “Morality”, for all practical purposes, means shared human morality...or, at least, the shared morality of the humans who are having the discussion.
“Utility” is kind of like “paperclips”...yes, I understand that in the best case scenario it might be possible to create some sort of construct which measures how much “utility” various agent-like objects get from various real world outcomes, but maximizing utility for all agents within this framework is not necessarily my goal...just like maximizing paperclips is not my goal.