England, for example, has had an established church throughout its history (there are still bishops in the House of Lords), and it was never a theocracy in any meaningful sense of the term.
Theocracy has a lot of meanings, and one can argue that Elizabethan England was a theocracy in that the head of state was the head of the religion, and that the official religion was compulsory, but I was contrasting Islam and Christianity, and Elizabethan England was not a theocracy in the sense that Islam is a theocracy, one difference being that law in islam supposed to be religious, that secular law is supposed to be subordinate to religious law and priestly authority, while England had truly secular law independent of priestly authority, another difference being that Queen Elizabeth the first was under no obligation to make holy war to extend the true religion, whereas the Caliph was under
obligation to make holy war to extend the true religion.
The biggest difference of course is that every Shakespearean play was written from a Roman Catholic, materialist, or pagan point of view, whereas you could not get away with that sort of thing under Islam—and indeed you cannot get away with it in today’s England where no television program or movie will written from a politically incorrect point of view. In this sense, Elizabethan England was not a theocracy, and today’s England is a theocracy.
In the original context, the implied definition of the theocracy for that post is that in Islam, the ruler’s authority comes from the true religion: The ruler must be a true Muslim, and his law must be subordinate to Shaia law. In Christianity, Caesar’s authority does not come from the true religion, he need not be a true Christian, and his law is not subject to priestly authority.
In another post, I might well use a different implied definition of theocracy, under which most of the Christian past was theocratic, or all states are theocratic in some sense, some being more theocratic than others.
But in other contexts, other definitions are defensible.
The biggest difference of course is that every Shakespearean play was written from a Roman Catholic, materialist, or pagan point of view,
You’ve claimed that before, and I’ve challenged that position, and you’ve not provided any evidence to support it.
EDIT TO ADD: Also, to make proper comparisons with modern-day political correctness (i.e. following what is considered the limits of acceptable political discourse), you need to show where a Shakespearean play ever attacks Queen Elizabeth or her politics.
Also, to make proper comparisons with modern-day political correctness (i.e. following what is considered the limits of acceptable political discourse), you need to show where a Shakespearean play ever attacks Queen Elizabeth or her politics.
Elizabethan England did not enforce a political view, in large part because in those days religion was politics., it enforced a religious view. Religious issues where what was controversial back then, were what people argued over, and frequently killed each other over. The divine right and natural right of Kings was like motherhood and apple pie, not an issue.
Which official religious beliefs Shakespeare with great regularity doubted, and sometimes attacked—his plays imply the existence of purgatory, doubt the existence of an afterlife, and doubt the existence of a God that cares about humans, or pays much attention to them.
Modern politics asserts several political views that have distinctly religious characteristics, such as that all humans are equal, and then enforces equality in the in sense of interchangeability. Modern films, plays, and books not merely refrain from doubting such views, but actively uphold them. Not one black who is a significant character is stereotypical, a quite improbable number of them are actively counterstereotypical. Almost all heroines and love interests are actively counter stereotypical, for example in that they quite improbably successfully beat up bad guys, the most notorious example being princess Leia improbably and unbelievably throttling Jabba the Hut.
Elizabethan England did not enforce a political view,
You keep talking utter falsehood about past eras, which you predictably and utterly fail to substantiate with evidence.
I’ve already told you about Shakespeare needing to present Macbeth as a tyrant, and Jeanne D’arc as an evil witch. Here’s some more direct evidence of political censoring: Quotes from http://www.family-source.com/cache/144244/idx/0
“The best-known case of political censorship is that of Richard II. The play’s first edition had a scene that showed the deposition of Richard II, which “so infuriated Queen Elizabeth that she ordered it eliminated from all copies”
“In Henry IV, the name Oldcastle was changed to Falstaff after the intervention of the Cobham family, Sir John Oldcastle’s descendants, who were powerful in the Elizabethan court (”
such as that all humans are equal and then enforcing equality in the in sense of interchangeability
Are you kidding us? With half the released movies being superhero flicks where people of special heritage and/or power have the fate of the whole world resting on their shoulders (X-Men, Superman, Batman, Spiderman), or other Messiah/Mighty Whitey types (e.g. Avatar, The Last Samurai, Dances With Wolves, The Matrix)?
the most notorious example being Princess Leia improbably and unbelievably throttling Jabba the Hut.
She’s a princess. From a family of Jedis. You bring up Star Wars in the same paragraph that you claim that modern films portray all humans as equal and interchangeable, and you don’t even notice the fricking irony? Is Luke Skywalker interchangeable with Stormtrooper #4, or even with Lando Calrissian? Is Anakin Skywalker interchangeable with even Random Jedi #52?
Look, nearly every single sentence of yours ends up unsubstantiated, and disproven ludicrously easily. Can you just try to think of an obvious counterexample to your claims before you press “Comment” next time, so that you don’t waste our time typing said obvious counterexamples?
Theocracy has a lot of meanings, and one can argue that Elizabethan England was a theocracy in that the head of state was the head of the religion, and that the official religion was compulsory, but I was contrasting Islam and Christianity, and Elizabethan England was not a theocracy in the sense that Islam is a theocracy, one difference being that law in islam supposed to be religious, that secular law is supposed to be subordinate to religious law and priestly authority, while England had truly secular law independent of priestly authority, another difference being that Queen Elizabeth the first was under no obligation to make holy war to extend the true religion, whereas the Caliph was under obligation to make holy war to extend the true religion.
The biggest difference of course is that every Shakespearean play was written from a Roman Catholic, materialist, or pagan point of view, whereas you could not get away with that sort of thing under Islam—and indeed you cannot get away with it in today’s England where no television program or movie will written from a politically incorrect point of view. In this sense, Elizabethan England was not a theocracy, and today’s England is a theocracy.
In the original context, the implied definition of the theocracy for that post is that in Islam, the ruler’s authority comes from the true religion: The ruler must be a true Muslim, and his law must be subordinate to Shaia law. In Christianity, Caesar’s authority does not come from the true religion, he need not be a true Christian, and his law is not subject to priestly authority.
In another post, I might well use a different implied definition of theocracy, under which most of the Christian past was theocratic, or all states are theocratic in some sense, some being more theocratic than others.
But in other contexts, other definitions are defensible.
You’ve claimed that before, and I’ve challenged that position, and you’ve not provided any evidence to support it.
EDIT TO ADD: Also, to make proper comparisons with modern-day political correctness (i.e. following what is considered the limits of acceptable political discourse), you need to show where a Shakespearean play ever attacks Queen Elizabeth or her politics.
Elizabethan England did not enforce a political view, in large part because in those days religion was politics., it enforced a religious view. Religious issues where what was controversial back then, were what people argued over, and frequently killed each other over. The divine right and natural right of Kings was like motherhood and apple pie, not an issue.
Which official religious beliefs Shakespeare with great regularity doubted, and sometimes attacked—his plays imply the existence of purgatory, doubt the existence of an afterlife, and doubt the existence of a God that cares about humans, or pays much attention to them.
Modern politics asserts several political views that have distinctly religious characteristics, such as that all humans are equal, and then enforces equality in the in sense of interchangeability. Modern films, plays, and books not merely refrain from doubting such views, but actively uphold them. Not one black who is a significant character is stereotypical, a quite improbable number of them are actively counterstereotypical. Almost all heroines and love interests are actively counter stereotypical, for example in that they quite improbably successfully beat up bad guys, the most notorious example being princess Leia improbably and unbelievably throttling Jabba the Hut.
You keep talking utter falsehood about past eras, which you predictably and utterly fail to substantiate with evidence.
I’ve already told you about Shakespeare needing to present Macbeth as a tyrant, and Jeanne D’arc as an evil witch. Here’s some more direct evidence of political censoring: Quotes from http://www.family-source.com/cache/144244/idx/0
“The best-known case of political censorship is that of Richard II. The play’s first edition had a scene that showed the deposition of Richard II, which “so infuriated Queen Elizabeth that she ordered it eliminated from all copies”
“In Henry IV, the name Oldcastle was changed to Falstaff after the intervention of the Cobham family, Sir John Oldcastle’s descendants, who were powerful in the Elizabethan court (”
Are you kidding us? With half the released movies being superhero flicks where people of special heritage and/or power have the fate of the whole world resting on their shoulders (X-Men, Superman, Batman, Spiderman), or other Messiah/Mighty Whitey types (e.g. Avatar, The Last Samurai, Dances With Wolves, The Matrix)?
She’s a princess. From a family of Jedis. You bring up Star Wars in the same paragraph that you claim that modern films portray all humans as equal and interchangeable, and you don’t even notice the fricking irony? Is Luke Skywalker interchangeable with Stormtrooper #4, or even with Lando Calrissian? Is Anakin Skywalker interchangeable with even Random Jedi #52?
Look, nearly every single sentence of yours ends up unsubstantiated, and disproven ludicrously easily. Can you just try to think of an obvious counterexample to your claims before you press “Comment” next time, so that you don’t waste our time typing said obvious counterexamples?