If the problem is the folks among us worrying about us being a cult, not talking about it will only make them worry more. Their concerns should be treated seriously (“Supposing we were a cult, what’s wrong with that?” is indeed a good approach), no matter how stupid they may turn out to be, and they should be reassured with proper arguments, rather than dismissed out of hand. Intimidating outsiders into feeling stupid is, I think, a valid short-time tactic, but when it comes to our folks, we owe each other to examine things clearly.
Since the problem seems to pop up spontaneously as well as propagate memetically, I would suggest making an FAQ with all the common concerns, addressing them in a fair and conclusive manner, that will leave their minds at peace. And not in a short-term, fuzzily-reassuring bullshit kind of peace, but a “problem solved, question dissolved, muthahubber” kind of peace.
I assume you haven’t read this and related posts and the countless other discussions on the topic? The topic has been over discussed already.. My problem is that people keep bringing it up all the time and people (and search engines) start associating ‘lesswrong’ with ‘cult’.
Well then why don’t you just link people to this every time you see the problem pop up? I certainly will.
the countless other discussions on the topic
Sorry, I’m going to be a freaking pedant here, but this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. That is a physical impossibility. Please refrain from this kind of hyperbole and use the appropriate adjective; in this case, many. Thank you.
why don’t you just link people to this every time you see the problem pop up?
Tangentially… while encouraging others to provide links to relevant past discussions when a subject comes up is a fine thing, it ought not substitute for encouraging in ourselves the habit of searching for relevant past discussions before bringing a subject up.
Actually, a huge problem I have with LW is the sheer amount of discussions-inside-discussions we have. Especially in the Sequences, there’s just too many comments to humanly read. If we could make summaries of the consensus on any specific topic, and keep them updated as discussions progress...
I’m not suggesting reading all the comments everywhere. I agree that there’s a lot of them, and while I think your estimate of human capability here is low, I can certainly sympathize with the lack of desire to bother reading them all.
I am suggesting that Google is your friend. Googling “site:lesswrong.com cult,” for example, is a place to start if you’re actually interested in what people have said on this topic in the past.
As far as publishing updated summaries of LW consensus by topic goes, sure, if someone wanted to do that work they’d be welcome to do so.
You might also find the LW wiki useful, if you decide you’re willing to do some looking around (the link is at the top of the site).
For example, someone has taken the time to maintain a jargon file there, in the hopes of making local jargon more accessible to people. I realize it’s not quite as useful to newcomers as someone explaining the jargon each time, or as everyone restricting themselves to mainstream language all the time, but it might be better than nothing.
Intimidating outsiders into feeling stupid is, I think, a valid short-time tactic, but when it comes to our folks, we owe each other to examine things clearly.
On a site like this, how do we tell the difference?
Accumulated karma is usually a good metric. The jargon, and the ideological equipment and epistemological approach, are also important signs to look out for. So is the degree of mean-spiritedness. Subjective is not the same as meaningless.
For my own part I endorse intimidating people who demonstrate mean-spirited behavior into silence (whether by making them feel stupid, if that works, or some other mechanism). Depending on what you mean by “ideological equipment and epistemological approach”, I might endorse the same tactic there as well.
Neither of those endorsements depends much on how long those people have been contributing, or how much karma they’ve accumulated, or what jargon they use.
I endorse intimidating them into silence. I don’t endorse doing something ineffectual or counterproductive with the intention of intimidating them into silence.
If the problem is the folks among us worrying about us being a cult, not talking about it will only make them worry more. Their concerns should be treated seriously (“Supposing we were a cult, what’s wrong with that?” is indeed a good approach), no matter how stupid they may turn out to be, and they should be reassured with proper arguments, rather than dismissed out of hand. Intimidating outsiders into feeling stupid is, I think, a valid short-time tactic, but when it comes to our folks, we owe each other to examine things clearly.
Since the problem seems to pop up spontaneously as well as propagate memetically, I would suggest making an FAQ with all the common concerns, addressing them in a fair and conclusive manner, that will leave their minds at peace. And not in a short-term, fuzzily-reassuring bullshit kind of peace, but a “problem solved, question dissolved, muthahubber” kind of peace.
I assume you haven’t read this and related posts and the countless other discussions on the topic? The topic has been over discussed already.. My problem is that people keep bringing it up all the time and people (and search engines) start associating ‘lesswrong’ with ‘cult’.
Well then why don’t you just link people to this every time you see the problem pop up? I certainly will.
Sorry, I’m going to be a freaking pedant here, but this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. That is a physical impossibility. Please refrain from this kind of hyperbole and use the appropriate adjective; in this case, many. Thank you.
I can’t count them = they are subjectively countless for me. Happy now?
Sure you could, you just have other stuff you’d rather do, which is totally okay :)
Nope, I don’t even even have access to information regarding most of the discussions that have taken place ;)
Tangentially… while encouraging others to provide links to relevant past discussions when a subject comes up is a fine thing, it ought not substitute for encouraging in ourselves the habit of searching for relevant past discussions before bringing a subject up.
Actually, a huge problem I have with LW is the sheer amount of discussions-inside-discussions we have. Especially in the Sequences, there’s just too many comments to humanly read. If we could make summaries of the consensus on any specific topic, and keep them updated as discussions progress...
I’m not suggesting reading all the comments everywhere.
I agree that there’s a lot of them, and while I think your estimate of human capability here is low, I can certainly sympathize with the lack of desire to bother reading them all.
I am suggesting that Google is your friend.
Googling “site:lesswrong.com cult,” for example, is a place to start if you’re actually interested in what people have said on this topic in the past.
As far as publishing updated summaries of LW consensus by topic goes, sure, if someone wanted to do that work they’d be welcome to do so.
You might also find the LW wiki useful, if you decide you’re willing to do some looking around (the link is at the top of the site).
For example, someone has taken the time to maintain a jargon file there, in the hopes of making local jargon more accessible to people. I realize it’s not quite as useful to newcomers as someone explaining the jargon each time, or as everyone restricting themselves to mainstream language all the time, but it might be better than nothing.
On a site like this, how do we tell the difference?
Accumulated karma is usually a good metric. The jargon, and the ideological equipment and epistemological approach, are also important signs to look out for. So is the degree of mean-spiritedness. Subjective is not the same as meaningless.
Gotcha.
For my own part I endorse intimidating people who demonstrate mean-spirited behavior into silence (whether by making them feel stupid, if that works, or some other mechanism). Depending on what you mean by “ideological equipment and epistemological approach”, I might endorse the same tactic there as well.
Neither of those endorsements depends much on how long those people have been contributing, or how much karma they’ve accumulated, or what jargon they use.
Have to be careful about that—if you’re being trolled there is noticeable potential for an epic fail :-)
I endorse intimidating them into silence.
I don’t endorse doing something ineffectual or counterproductive with the intention of intimidating them into silence.