I’m trying to explore this as we go along; it’s very possible I’ve been incoherent.
I don’t class Omelas in any of these categories category because I’ve never seen it used in this kind of discussion, at all.
Permutation City was an example I only thought of in the last post. Fundamentally I feel like it belongs in a different cluster from these other examples (including the LW ones) - I’m trying to understand why, and I was suggesting that the value judgements might be the difference, but that’s little more than a guess.
I don’t class Omelas in any of these categories category because I’ve never seen it used in this kind of discussion, at all.
Well… OK. Let’s change that.
Omelas is a good illustration of the intuitive problems with a straight-up total-utilitarian approach to ethical philosophy. It’s clear that by any coherent metric, the benefits enjoyed as a consequence of that child’s suffering far outweigh the costs of that suffering. Nevertheless, the intuitive judgment of most people is that there’s something very wrong with this picture and that alleviating the child’s suffering would be a good thing.
OK… now that you’ve seen Omelas used to in a discussion about utilitarian moral philosophy, does your judgment about the story change?
Hmm. I was not fond of the story in any case, so this use would need to be particularly bad to diminish my opinion of it.
The fundamental lack of realism in the story now seems more important. Where before I was happy to suspend disbelief on the implausibility of a town that worked that way, if we’re going to apply actual philosophy it I find myself wanting a more rigorous explanation of how things work—why do people believe that comforting the child would damage the city?
Do I think using the story has made the discussion worse? Maybe; it’s hard to compare to a control in the specific instance. But I think in the general, average case philosophical discussions that use fictional examples turn out less well than those that don’t.
If I thought the use of the story had damaged the discussion, would that make me think less of the story or author? I think my somewhat weaselly (and nonutilitarian) answer is that intent matters here. If I discovered that a story I liked was actually intended allegorically, I think I’d think less of it (and to a certain extent this happened with Animal Farm, which I read naively at an early age and less naively a few years later, and thought less of it the second time). But if someone just happens to use a story I like in a philosophical argument, without there being anything inherent to the story or author that invited this kind of use, I don’t think that would change my opinion.
I’m trying to explore this as we go along; it’s very possible I’ve been incoherent.
I don’t class Omelas in any of these categories category because I’ve never seen it used in this kind of discussion, at all.
Permutation City was an example I only thought of in the last post. Fundamentally I feel like it belongs in a different cluster from these other examples (including the LW ones) - I’m trying to understand why, and I was suggesting that the value judgements might be the difference, but that’s little more than a guess.
Well… OK. Let’s change that.
OK… now that you’ve seen Omelas used to in a discussion about utilitarian moral philosophy, does your judgment about the story change?
Hmm. I was not fond of the story in any case, so this use would need to be particularly bad to diminish my opinion of it.
The fundamental lack of realism in the story now seems more important. Where before I was happy to suspend disbelief on the implausibility of a town that worked that way, if we’re going to apply actual philosophy it I find myself wanting a more rigorous explanation of how things work—why do people believe that comforting the child would damage the city?
Do I think using the story has made the discussion worse? Maybe; it’s hard to compare to a control in the specific instance. But I think in the general, average case philosophical discussions that use fictional examples turn out less well than those that don’t.
If I thought the use of the story had damaged the discussion, would that make me think less of the story or author? I think my somewhat weaselly (and nonutilitarian) answer is that intent matters here. If I discovered that a story I liked was actually intended allegorically, I think I’d think less of it (and to a certain extent this happened with Animal Farm, which I read naively at an early age and less naively a few years later, and thought less of it the second time). But if someone just happens to use a story I like in a philosophical argument, without there being anything inherent to the story or author that invited this kind of use, I don’t think that would change my opinion.
OK, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying your position.